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In Reply to: Re: LCD VS. Plasma posted by townsend on October 05, 2004 at 17:46:11:
You're thinking of the direct view LCDs. There are several manufacturers of LCD RPs 43" to 61"...Sony and Panasonic to name just two. They've improved mightily in the last 3 years, but for me, the black levels and shadow detail isn't quite there yet. I hate "grey" or "blue" deep shadow.But tons of people absolutely love their Grand Wega IIIs LCD RPs, if the posts at avsforum.com are anything to go by.
Actually, many plasmas STILL have a problem with deep blacks, as well as shadow detail. The current models are much better than they used to be. Panasonic plasmas have excellent "apparent" blacks, mainly because they have superior contrast levels. Pannys are probably the best bargain I've seen in plasmas, and they're certainly the best I've seen for black levels and contrast - at the 42" modle's price point they're very competitive with the DLP/LCD displays of comparable size. The Fujitsu's are flat out gorgeous but very expensive.
There is no such thing as a perfect display - not yet, anyway - all the technologies have their strengths and weaknesses.
Follow Ups:
$/performance, this is the best value in plasma. Click on the "brochure" download when the page opens. The panel itself can be had for <$4650 + $200 shipping and the optional video cards run from $100 - $200. A universal wall-mount can be had for $100.
- http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72962&catGroupId=14624&modelNo=TH-50PHD7UY&surfModel=TH-50PHD7UY (Open in New Window)
please provide link and/or model number. Thanks.
This should contain what you want (there's also a discount if it's a "cash" transaction). You should see Panasonic's plasmas on the home page. If they've changed it, just use the index on the left side of the page.As for wall-mounts, get a Sanus Systems flat panel wall mount. Check the internet or threads in the Plasma forum at AVS. They can be found for $99.
The video cards for the commercial Panasonic's can probably be found with a slightly better price at www.plasmaconcepts.com and you may also get a comparable price on the display there as well.
Joe,Thanks for the link. I searched around, and the equivalent though smaller Panasonic is the TH-42PHD7UY, which will soon be released.
I guess I would need to buy a HDMI board if I hook it up to a DVD player that has HDMI output and the capability to upconvert DVDs to 720p/1080i? Will the capacity of such a player result in a superior picture on plasma screens? This gets into the issue of how fixed displays handle the signal, and I don't know much about that.
Secondly, I recognize that a viewer may have a different sensitivity to the "screen door" effect, but I am wrestling with the possibility of a 42" plasma for viewing DVD movies in an upstairs bedroom, which has computer, stereo, and guitar stuff.
If I placed a plasma on wall, or more likely on my Bell'Ogetti stereo stand, there is a maxium of 11 feet from wall to wall. I would therefore sit approximately 8' from the plasma. I am wondering about the most appropriate size plasma, if any, for such a small room.
Cost (and room size, I suppose) rule out a 50". So my choices are 42" and 37". I like Panasonic, because of superior blacks, and Panasonic doesn't make a 37" high-def plasma (as far I can a tell). I can go to Best Buy and look at plasma from 7-8 feet as a test, just wondering about your knowledge or experience with screen door effect and viewing distance. Thanks.
townsend
Although you didn't specifically mention it, I would recommend not using a computer with a plasma display. Now, if you were using the computer's DVD player to route movies to the plasma, that would be a different story. But for internet and off-line work (or serious gaming, for that matter), my opinion (which several members in the Plasma forum on AVS Forum might disagree with) is to not mix the two.For the 42" versions, the HD model is the PHD at 1024x768 and the ED model is the PWD at 852x480. Which one you need only you can decide. That 8ft distance just happens to be the HD vs ED gray area (sorry). There are numerous threads on AVS Forum in the Plasma section dedicated solely to this particular topic (two active ones right now).
At 8ft, my advice would be to get the ED model and spend the "saved" money (There never really is any saved money, now is there?) on better components which will be used with the display (DVD player, speakers, receiver, etc). Again, it's really up to you. Don't take anyone's word, because it's your eyes that have to look at the picture. Check out ED vs HD models at that distance in the stores to see if one or the other is the better choice for your eyes.
If you are getting a DVD player with HDMI output, you have to be aware of the HDMI bug (it affects HDMI-to-DVI connections). Not every DVD player suffers from this, but most do. My advice would be to get the HDMI board vs the DVI board if you are going to get an HDMI DVD player, unless you have another source that uses DVI as well as an HDMI source (mo' money, mo' money!). You can read more about this in the DVD Hardware section of AVS or scroll way down in the SACD (Hi-Rez) forum here at AA (the thread is about the new Onkyo SP-1000 Universal player).
An upconverting player, in my experience (I have a Bravo D1), gives a slightly better picture on my 50" 6UY, which is 1366x768, via DVI. The 42" HD model may also show a slightly better picture with an upconverting player. It wouldn't make sense to upconvert for an ED model plasma, though there are a few reasons it might benefit, however. But is it DVI (which is one less A/D and D/A conversion, in most implementations) or the upconverting that is actually the major influence vs an analog component connection?
I believe Panasonic may or did offer an HD version of the 37", but not for the commercial models -- only the consumer models.
Though I have a computer in the room, I also have my "minimalist HT" set-up, so I'll drive the display device with my Marantz DV-8300. Of course, it doesn't have either DVI or HDMI output, but if it is worth it, I could pick up a Bravo or Samsung.I'm like you--a plasma is too expensive to use for gaming or Internet surfing. I don't game at all anyway.
As for 8' being HD vs. ED gray area (I need to check some threads at avsforum.com about this--under "plasma/LCD" section???), I can still think of sufficient reason to buy HD plasma--with HD TV becoming more widespread, and with Blu-ray DVD (or HD-DVD) coming on line in the next couple of years. A plasma is plenty expensive--I want to futureproof myself from what I can see coming in the next couple of years.
I don't have the super audiophile gear, but my accompanying gear is "OK": NAD T-751 AV receiver, Monitor audio silver speakers, and Marantz DV-8300 universal player (my main hobby is music listening--hence universal player for various music formats).
I have read threads on Onyko SP-1000 at this forum, some pro and some con. I really don't want to part with $2,000 for this player, especially because we'll probably need a new player when hi-rez DVD arrives. (I recognize we will always be upgrading--I just try to make it a little less painful financially by waiting)
Denon 3910 sounded great, price is right (MSRP $1299), but it has been savagely reviewed by some audiophiles. Bravo or Samsung might be way to go, certainly both are cost effective.
Thanks again for your expertise.
Oh, one more item--I know most plasma owners are critical of LCD. Don't you think the Samsung units have made some progress in the "black" department? My subjective problem with LCD is that I don't get a sense of "depth" to the picture as I do when I watch plasma.
I don't know what happened to my first reply, so I'll try again.ED vs HD
It's really up to you. If you feel that HD is needed for a 42" model at that distance, by all means get what you want. I understand the need to future-proof, but here's a suggestion. Why not get an ED model now (42" ED 7UY panel for $2050) and in a few years upgrade to a 50" HD model (funds permitting)? Remember, even with the next generation players in 2006, many people with today's ED plasmas still get that WOW! factor when watching HD material. I'm not trying to push you to an ED display: I'm just suggesting that you make an informed decision based on your needs. If a 42" HD model makes the most sense to you and that's what your eyes tell you, follow that route.Budget
Looking at the prices I've seen for the new 7UY 50" and 42" HD Panasonics, would it be too much of a stretch to spring for the 50" model? The difference is $1k at 1800plasmas.com and in a few months I'll bet that difference will shrink by $200 - $300 due to the fact that 42" HD models are part of the least competitive section of the market.DVI and Bravo vs Samsung
If you want to invest in a DVD player with a digital output (DVI or HDMI), I'd suggest waiting a few months. There are several players, a few of them rather inexpensive, that are being released soon and may get around some of the bugs that have plagued recent players.I have a Bravo D1 that has not given me any problems. That's not to say that everyone has been so lucky. I'd say the odds are 80/20 that you will get a good player that doesn't cause you to regret your purchase. That said, the picture from the DVI output to the plasma is unreal at times. It almost looks like HD when a high quality DVD is played.
Stay away from Samsung. Their video engineers have shown for the second year in a row that they do not understand how to properly design a digital video circuit in a DVD player. That's not my opinion -- that's an easily proven fact.
Plasma vs LCD
That's a hotly debated topic. Specifically, regarding your question about depth, here's the 411. "Depth" perception in video is directly related to how well a display handles black levels. Plasmas just happen to do a better job than LCDs (flat panel and projection).
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