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I'm more into audio than video, and am sticking a toe into the video water. We're considering replacing our 32" CRT HDTV with a (considerably) larger screen.So, how do DLPs stack up against plasmas? They certainly appear to be a better deal, and they claim to be much easier to service. Outside of the thinner profile, does plasma offer anything that DLP does not?
Any specific recommendations? I'm even open to the idea of a ceiling-mount projector
Thanks.
J
Follow Ups:
The Sony is here now (they call it SXRD, but it is LCoS... and LG's is coming in the next couple months). They are much nicer pictures than DLP. Get to a high end shop like Magnolia to check it out......Best Buy has them also. Here is a recent article from the LG launch in Australia. US should be launched next. The Sony 70" is expensive at 11k, but the LG is almost 50% less I believe, and they'll have smaller sizes as well. I am waiting for these to arrive to upgrade to a new HDTV. Note in this article that they are using Australian dollars, not US.Rear projection - no longer dirty words
Rob Gillam - Friday, 25 November 2005
LG's LCoS 71SA1D proves the days of poor-resolution rear-projection television are over.Chances are you've heard about LG introducing Australia's first LCD display with an integrated high definition (HD) digital tuner (no external set-top box required). It's done it again, this time with the first LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) technology display with an integrated HD digital tuner, the rear-projection widescreen 71SA1D. (LCoS) is a hybrid technology combining the capabilities of LCD and digital light projection (DLP) formats.
LG Engineer, George Karatzis, says the advantage of LCoS' hybrid technology over pure LCD or DLP is that "It doesn't have as much of the 'screen door' effect you get with outright DLP and LCD. It's the best of both worlds.
It provides a very high pixel density rate and very high contrast ratio levels -- similar to most of LG plasmas.
It's basically a reflective technology, not passive like a normal LCD. It allows twisting of the crystal material to allow more or less light through. It virtually has silicone layer that acts like a mirror.
You don't get hard edging. You get a very smooth picture, like film."
SmartHouse experienced the display first-hand and it is striking. At 71 inches (or 180 centimetres) diagonal, the thing is huge. It's roughly man-sized. Still, its massive horizontal size isn't matched in the rear. Unlike traditional rear projection displays, LCos technology allows for a surprisingly slim 56 centimetre profile. Facing this rear-pro from the front, it's easy to mistake it for (a very large version of) one of its plasma brethren. It had slightly higher brightness and deeper colour tones than the HD plasmas it was positioned alongside.
But it's that it's able to so realistically present High Definition content across all that display space that is most impressive. It is a true 1080p-capable progressive scan display.
Admittedly, we watched the display in a (very) darkened room only. Also noticeable was a slight film of shininess at closer viewing distances.
The 71SA1D has plenty of bells and whistles included in its $9999 price-tag, such as memory card slots, seven speakers including subwoofer, dual HDMI inputs and PC compatibility. It is due in store mid December 2005 so Santa's reindeer should have their work well cut out.
The DLP killer...
- http://au.lge.com/md/product/prodcategorylist.do?actType=detail&currPage=1&categoryId=1000000161&parentCategoryId=0200000102&categoryLevel=4&productId=1100000833 (Open in New Window)
Interesting. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will it accept 1080p input? The Sony won't. JVC's version of LCOS, D-ILA, has been delayed, at least the 1080p versions. Why only one size?
Jack
See below for 1080P
Primary Technology
Native Display Resolution : 1920 * 1080P
Contrast Ratio (Dark Room) : 10000:1(MAX)
Brightness : 600cd/㎡ (MAX)
Useful Life(LAMP LIFE TIME) : 8000 hrs
Viewing Angle : 130(H) X 62(V)
Colour Temperature Adjustment (# of Modes) : Yes (3 Modes)
Aspect Ratio Adjustment (# of modes) : Yes (6 Modes)
EZ Video/Picture Selection Mode : 5 Modes
Gamma Correction : Yes
Digital Luminance Transient Improver : Yes
High Contrast Screen w/Non-glare Coating : Yes
Mirror Type (Front Surface/Rear Surface/Mylar) : Yes (Front Surface Mirror)
Screen Pitch : 0.098mm
Audio : 40W(2*20W), 25W(Woofer)
Surround System Type : SRS TruSurround XT
Bass/Treble/Balance : Yes
Volume Leveler : Yes
Sound Selection Mode : Yes (5 Modes)
Speaker System Details : Stereo 3way * 7 Speakers
Sub Woofer : Yes (1)
Core Features
PAL/SECAM Analogue Tuner (Qty) : Yes (1)
DVB-T Digital Tuner (Qty) : Yes (1)
Xstudio (9-in-2 Multi Memory Card Slot) : Yes
Special Features
Custom Channel Labels : Yes (Text, 100 Channels - Analog, 20 Channels - Digital)
Custom Input Labels : No
Hide Input Function : No
PIP : Yes
POP : Yes (4 Pics)
Split Screen : Yes
PIP/Freeze/Exchange/Move : Yes (PIP/Freeze/Exchange)
Discrete IR Codes : Yes
Favorite Channel Selection/Surf : Yes (10 Channels)
Zoom Type (Advanced, Multi) : Yes (Cinema zoom)
On/Off Timer : Yes
Sleep Timer : Yes
Auto Off (When no video is present) : Yes
Flashback (Previous Channel) : Yes
Parental Control With V-Chip : Yes(DVB-T)
Menus System : Yes (Bit Mapped -2D)
Auto Programming : Yes
Auto Demo : Yes
XD Engine : Yes (IEP2)
Program Guide (Y/N) : Yes
Program Guide Type : NOW/NEXT
"IEEE 1394 Software Capability : No
Decoder Formats (MPEG 2, MPEG 4, DivX, WMA 9) : MPEG2
Inputs/Outputs
RF Inputs (Qty) : 1 (separate from analog RF)
Rear A/V Input : 2
Front A/V Input : 1
Rear Composite Video Out : Yes(RF/AV Monitor Out)
Rear Component Video Input - Qty : 2
RGB In (15 pin) - Type & Qty : (PC/DTV), 1 Jack
RGB Associated Audio In and Type : Yes (Phono)
RGB Out (15 pin) : No
HDMI - Qty : Yes, 2 w/HDCP(Port 1 : HDMI & DVI, Port2 : HDMI Only)
Headphone Out : No
Digital Audio (Optical ) Out : Yes(1)
Digital Audio (Optical) In : Yes(2, Use for Component 2 and DVI)
RS-232c Control : No
RS-232c Software Upgrade Interface : Yes
Remote Control In (IR) : Yes
Speaker Jacks and Type : No
Variable Audio Out and Type : Yes (RCA)
Digital Cable Card Slot : No
IEEE 1394/DTCP : No
IR Jack : No
See below for 1080P
General
Width x Height x Depth : 1840 * 1155 * 564 (mm) (TBD)
Weight Out of Package : 63Kg (TBD)
Weight In Package : 78Kg (TBD)
Width x Height x Depth on Rack : 1840 * 1543 * 564 (mm) (TBD)
Width x Height x Depth in packaging : 1936 * 1280 * 679 (mm) (TBD)
It'll compete with Sony and JVC.
What the specs don't say, is whether or not it will accept a 1080p signal via HDMI. Despite having a 1080p native resolution, the Sony does not accept 1080p via HDMI.
We'll see how they look. Haven't had a chance to see the 1080p JVCs, they were delayed/recalled, and not out when they originally said they would be. Hopefully, the LGs will be good-I wasn't impressed with their plasmas though.
Jack
I am told they will accept 1080P in. Also note those are Australian specs. The US tuner will be different. Expect these to show up here sometime after CES and much less expensive than the Sony. The Sony is an awesome TV also. Anyone buying one of these LCoS units will be glad they passed on DLP imo.
.
I went back to Sears to further investigate why the Sony SXRD looked so bad. The salesman told me it was the only TV on the floor that could not display an HD picture because its location in the store - no hookup available.Afterwards, I drove to Circuit City which is another retailer in the area. They had both Sony SXRD televisions - 50 and 60 inch - on the floor displayed with DirecTV High Definition. It was the best picture in the store especially on the 60 inch model.
My only concern were the yellows might have been exaggerated. They were showing the NFL channel and the re-broadcast of last weekend's Bucs-Bears game. The grass field at times seemed too yellowish compared with the Samsung DLP which was displayed right next to it.
Needless to say, in the showroom displays, everything is CRANKED up. Colors may be a bit saturated, but I don't have a problem with too much yellow. The next time you go, play with the settings a bit-if they won't give you the remote, there are some controls on the side of the set. The damn set has something like 22 different controls for adjusting the picture-some dramatic, some subtle. Callibrating takes patience.
enjoy,
Jack
I went to Tweeter and was looking at the new sony SXRD,Samsung,Toshiba and LG. Iwas about to use the remote to look at the settings when the sales rep ask if I needed any help.I said no that I wanted to clear the store settings and adjust the set myself, when he said we don't change the factory settings,right I said to myself but he was right.It was the first time I ever had that happen.The samsung HLR5678W 1080p was by far the sharpest,cleanest set of all.
I was in my local Sears and saw the 50 inch version of this Sony. The picture was far from impressive. The Sony LCD's looked much better. All the TVs in the store were playing the same source material (maybe a DVD?). Why did this TV not look great? Do you think it might have been not properly setup?I am shopping for a 60-70" television now. I almost never watch DVD's. I mostly watch sports. I do not need a flat screen. What TV is recommended? I want something will take advantage of 1080p when and if it ever happens. I am told the new Sonys will not accept a 1080p signal. Is this true?
Was it the LCOS? Odds are, the sets aren't set up well-no surprise there. If you are looking for a large TV, you may wish to consider some of the large DLPs. They don't do much for me, but you may like them. No, the Sony doesn't accept 1080p, even though that is its native resolution. Then again, neither do the Samsungs, Mits., or JVCs. As far as I know, only the HPs accept full 1080p signals, but all accept 1080i. That being said, I don't know of any 1080p sources-HD TV doesn't have it, and supposedly Blu-ray may not either. I'm not too worried about that, since I mostly watch DVDs. The down side, is that SD TV can really look like crap.
Jack
Blu-ray will probably have 1080p output. Not that it matters that much.
Jack
They sure are.......absolutely smoke DLP and LCD in the largest formats (60-70"). I am waiting for the LGs to arrive as they should cost much less. They have the same 3-chip technology and a brighter picture. My only small gripe with the Sony was the picture was a bit dim for daylight viewing in my opinion.
I picked up the 60" last week. Outside of some mild reflections (an issue with all TVs in my house) there isn't any real problem with daytime watching, though I admit I do most of my viewing at night. I'm mildly curious about the LGs, to see how they stack up to the Sonys.
Jack
Very nice......you have the best large format TV on the market right now IMO. I will be interested to see the LG to compare.
that answer will depend on what is recommended. I suggest you spend about two weeks reading AVS forums, then come back here after your head spins, and we'll help with the final decisions. :-)For me, it was front projection or nothing. I only watch movies and very little TV (4-5 hours of movies and 2-3 hours of TV per week). You can't get 92 inch plasmas for any price, let alone the $1200 we paid for our projector back in April 2004. I researched the available models for my price (under $1500) and decided that the optoma H30 (at the time) had the best color rendition, black levels, and overall picture quality (based on what's important in a display to "me") for the money at the time.
The wife and I have had high definition front projection demos at the dealer ($11k, $12k, and a $50k setup for just the PJ) and still like what we have at home. To me it's only marginally better. Now the audio on the other hand ... (heheheheh).
We have an under $100 DIY screen, and a $1200 projector mounted on a table. I figure I may have to buy upto two more lamps for this guy, at about $399 each after 2000 hours. that ought to last me 9 years, or until 2013. And I don't have to settle for no 'rinky-dink,' tiny 42 or 50 inch display. I actually in the beginning wanted to get a 42inch plasma, but in the end, I couldn't justify the cost for such a small display.
One thing to remember, CRTs and Plasma are susceptible to screen burn-in. DLP and LCD are immune.
A Friend and I went browsing for displays and he could see rainbows on every DLP display (including his much-loved Runco Projectors). The only Front projector he saw which didn't have him spinning in rainbows was a huge $20K FP which we thought might be a 3-chip DLP setup. He's a perfectionist so he's SOL concerning single chip DLPs. You need to spend some time viewing DLP displays before you buy and try to figure out if you can see rainbows; if you can, I'm not sure you'd be able to learn to "tune-them out" (kinda like snap/crackle/pop and surface noise I've yet to learn to tune out with vinyl).At the time I was looking, I almost went with a 73" CRT RPTV; I wound up instead with 110" HD2 DLP FP because the visual impact was that much greater (and I had the room to do it). First row is 12 ft back which some might find too close. Room has to be completely dark for best viewing and I probably really needed a brighter FP but I had to start somewhere.
I'm also eyeing a 73" 1080p display (funds-permitting) to "back-up" the primary display. I have a drop down screen because "viewing wall" has 2 doors 5-6 feet apart with an archaic, convergence-challenged 48" RPTV for 'CNN-viewing".
"I'm even open to the idea of a ceiling-mount projector."Well, that's good, since that's the best way to get a real movie appearance in your home theater. A DLP front projector that will project a 90" diagonal image that's almost as good as Plasma (they don't make Plasmas that big), will put you back between $500 and $1,000).
Now I know: that's a lot of money ;) But you are getting a real cinema experience. Not just a fancy, expensive tube TV that looks like a computer monitor. Of course, there are drawbacks. You need to be able to put up with a darkened room. You know...like a real movie theater? You need quite a bit of space, because it can be tiring to watch an image 85 inches across, unless you are at least 12 feet back. And you need to be able to mount the projector on the ceiling, or place it on a coffee table. And coffee tables can be such a pain. People may spill coffee on them and...other stuff.
They are also more fiddly than TVs. You have to be able to mess with a few buttons and knobs to get a picture that is really good. Oh, and you need a screen. That will put you back about $100 if you make it yourself. And it's a lot thinner than a plasma TV, please! I think you get the picture!
Here's a cost comparison you may want to consider.Going the 50" Panasonic commercial plasma route will set you back $2800 plus $250 shipping. This version comes with one composite/S-video input, one RGB/YPbPr (component) input and a VGA input that will accept RGB or YPbPr component signals, but I'm sure you'll want an HDMI or DVI input as well -- that will add $150 to the bill. A nice set of speakers that you personally choose may set you back $250 (but that's up to you), but I'm sure you know that the ones built into speaker-included displays aren't worth more than 1/5 of that. A wall mount or stand can be purchased for $100 plus $10 shipping. The initial expenditure is a bit over $3500, but watch 2000 hours of television and it costs you $0 more. Watch 5000 hours of television and it costs you $0 more. Watch 10,000 hours of television and it costs you $0 more. Watch 30,000 hours of television and it costs you... I think you get the picture.
If you decide to go the 50" Samsung DLP display route, it will initially cost you $2500 (that's about average for most 50" DLP sets). The price of DLP bulbs range from $150 - $350 and are good for about 2000 - 2500 hours of use before they need to be replaced. Using $250 for the cost of the bulb and allowing for 2500 hours of use per bulb, it's going to cost you about $1000 above and beyond your initial expenditure for 10,000 hours of television watching (ie; $3500). Watch more, you pay more.
In other words, at 10,000 hours of use the DLP display begins to cost more than a plasma display. So much for the high cost of plasma.
Plasmas are great but pricy. Cost aside, the biggest negative is that they dim over time. I say who cares, unless you plan to use it as your primary set for 10 years. Chances are it will meet the same fate as your CRT before it dims to an intorerable level. (Personally, for the money I had to spend, I could not afford a big enough plasma > =50in.)One big neg with DLPs, is off axis viewing. Go to BestBuy and look at the wall of TVs and walk to an off axis viewing point. Some sets will dim and look like crap. I chose a DLP that looked great even if I was 45-60 degrees off axis.(which would be the corner forward from that point) TV spec sheets claim all sorts of things but you really have to see for your self.
Personally, I prefer *good* plasma to DLP. DLP's biggest advantage, is price, running at about 1/2 what a decent plasma will cost. I find that DLP gives me a headache, but not everyone has this problem. You'll have to go out to a bunch of stores and look at them yourself.
Jack
Try this:
Many thanks.
First, I would suggest a visit to AVS Forum's plasma section (if you haven't already done so). Learn the differences between consumer and commercial models.Second, take a look at AVS Forum sponser sites -- 1800plasmas.com, plasmaconcepts.com, visualapex.com and tvauthority.com -- to get a feel for prices. This may make the shopping a bit easier on the wallet. For instance, you can get a commercial 50" Panasonic for about $2800 + $200 shipping. Always deal with a reputable vendor if you order online. The sites I mentioned are all reputable.
Joe brings up a great point...learn the difference between commercial and consumer models. We've purchased 2 plasmas, a 42' Fujitsu and a 42' Panasonic...both commercial The warranty for the 42' commercial Panny (latest release) does not allow for in-home warranty service but the consumer model does. Each buyer will need to decide if they are willing to pack up the monitor and deliver it to a local service center as is required by the commercial warranty, should a problem arise.
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