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In Reply to: Re: Interesting article on BluRay vs HDDVD in today's sydney morning herald posted by David Aiken on February 15, 2007 at 16:18:18:
Like you, I'm waiting for 2nd (or 3rd generation) machines at around the A$500 price point. I didn't buy my first DVD player until 2 years after release, by which time there were plenty of titles and lots of player choices.But everytime I stop by at JB Hi-Fi, the titles seem, well, lacklustre.
I suspect the studios will all support BluRay now that HD-DVD AACS has been bypassed (a beta version of AnyDVD HD was released on Valentine's Day).
BluRay is equally vulnerable, but has an extra degree of protection which the studios can turn on in future titles.
Follow Ups:
The US titles are a bit underwhelming too.
For the record, A Sony exec has stated that it may be 3 years before stand alone players come down to the $300-$400 range (probably almost as long for $500). Blue-Ray has been cracked too-I beleive it was Ice Age 2(?), and Fox has pulled it's April releases due to "technical reasons". Uh-huh.
Jack
I'm watching the PC BluRay burner prices closely. I think once production volumes ramp up, prices will fall dramatically. Then the player prices will follow. That was the pattern for DVD.PlayStation 3 sales are also anothey key indicator. If these really take off, it would accelerate the process. If the PlayStation 3 bombed, then BluRay is in trouble.
Two thoughts: JB is stocking what they can sell, and not everything released so far in the US has been released here yet. I suspect both of those thoughts are true.I think the $500 price point is still a long way away, but a $1500 machine (equal in price to the Samsung), or better still a $1000 machine (equal in price to the PS3 which probably has a fair bit of price subsidy from Sony built into things and still costs way more here than it does in the US) would seriously get me considering a purchase provided the biggest issues with the first gen machines had been fixed and the range of films available had improved.
Query worth considering: most DVD players released here are region free since the court decision on that some years ago. Are the Blu-ray and HD DVD machines being released here also region free or is someone going to have to fight that fight again?
David Aiken
That's been bugging me about BluRay, I believe the HD-DVD discs are not region coded.In terms of the "court decision" you refer to, it never went to court. What happened was that the ACCC announced that they will investigate whether region coding contravenes the Trade Practices Act, and the metter was settled out of court. So the whole issue has never really been tested.
So it is quite possible that BluRay region coding may stick. For example, just putting my devil's advocate hat on, I could argue on behalf of the BluRay association that BluRay region coding does not contravene the Trade Practices Act, because Australia is in the same region as other PAL countries (Region B), so region coding does not prohibit parallel importation of other PAL titles. NTSC titles (Region A) are never meant to be "playable" in Australia so theoretically you can't play them so no point importing them.
Yes, I know that virtually every TV sold in Australia can play NTSC just fine, but things are different when interpreted from a legal perspective.
Chilling, I know, and it has been bothering me.
I read somewhere that Blu-ray does have region coding though it only uses 4 regions instead of 6. The info I read also said that using region coding on a disc was optional but, if it was used, then it had to be removed when pressing new copies of the film when 12 months had passed after the original disc release. That's a much more sensible approach than the standard DVD approach.The PAL/NTSC 50/60 Hz issues should both be dead. It's a new format independent of the old TV transmission standards and the frequency of the power line shouldn't have an impact on playing digital data. After all, you can play the same CD with the same results whether you play it in the US or in Australia with our different power systems. Power line frequency doesn't affect speed of data playback.
David Aiken
No, unfortunately very much alive. For example, HDTV in Australia is based on a 50Hz frame rate (eg. Channel Nine and Ten broadcasts at 1080i 50Hz) whereas in the US it's 60Hz.Similarly, players also run at 50 vs 60 Hz.
The reason is so that when you downconvert HD to SD you don't have to change frame rates.
Anyway, my point was not a technical but a legal one. From a legal perspective, one could argue that Region A titles are 60Hz therefore "unplayable" in Australia therefore no need to permit parallel importation, therefore region coding does not restrict competition. It's a stretch, I know, but a good (ie. really slimy) lawyer could probably mount a strong case.
Here is a quote from "home entertainment" magazine, one of our local and not too high quality publications, on Blu-ray discs currently available in Australia:"All six, interestingly, are US-style 60 Hz discs. At the moment that means that they tend to appear a little jerky at points due to the way that 24 frames per second film is transformed into 60 frames per second video." I can remember seeing something somewhere else which indicated that the discs we would get here were essentially the same as in the US except for any region coding.
The comment quoted refers to 6 Sony discs used in a review that "home entertainment' did of the Samsung and Panasonic players. One of those discs was 'Into The Blue', a film I'm unfamiliar with but did watch for a few minutes on a store display. I didn't notice any jerkiness on it, nor have I noticed any on any of the other films I've seen used in demos. If I remember correctly, the Sony player was being used for the demo that was showing "Into The Blue".
In any event, I just checked my TV's specs and it supports PAL in 2 varieties, one of which is 60 Hz. There may be a problem with 50/60 frame rates on older TVs but I wonder whether that is an issue with most current model HDTVs on the market here. The review of the Samsung and Panasonic players indicated that they both supported 50 and 60 Hz progressive.
It's definitely a very different issue with standard definition material because that adheres to the PAL standard which is 50 Hz, at least here in Australia.
David Aiken
If an Australian player is playing back an Australian Bluray of a film at 60Hz, then it's potentially a bug. This is because BluRay is supposed to encode films at 1080 24p, which should then get expanded to either 50Hz or 60Hz depending on region.I suspect these first generation players are finding it difficult to convert 24p to 50Hz, so they are using 60Hz instead. converting 24p to 60Hz (also known as 2:3 telecine) results in judder, however, it takes a very experienced eye to detect the judder. It's unlikely you'll notice it unless you know exactly what to look out for.
We may see some true 50Hz titles in the future, particularly with locally produced content, mastered from HDV at 50i.
Actually even for SD NTSC/60Hz has never really been an issue in Australia as most TVs sold are multi-format. Every single TV I've owned (even one bought in the eighties) has been able to play back NTSC.
There are a few units that don't support 1080i 50Hz and 1080p 50Hz though. These are typically early model projectors. Anything bought in the last few years should be fine though (fingers crossed).
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