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i have a progressive scan TV and non-prog. scan DVD, do both need to be prog. scan?

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i have a Pioneer DV-09 (non prog.) and a Loewe progressive scan digital TV, the question is, does my TV take the interlaced video and turn it into a progressive scan video, or does it simply give me progressive video of interlaced frames? (hard for me to believe this would be the case)...also, I guess not all progressive processing is the same, i've heard great reviews of Pioneer's new progressive scan technology in their new DVD players...

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Yes and no. Bob W 18:27:58 10/03/00 (6)
Depends on what you're trying to achieve.
Your Loewe most likely has an internal line doubler that takes your DVD's 480i signal and doubles it to be displayed in 480p. You're getting to see a better picture than non-line-doubled; however, chances are that the Loewe doubler is not necessarily the best.
You can substitute an outboard doubler (assuming the Loewe has an input that accepts a 31.5kHz scanning frequency, which I think it must to accept progressive DVD). There are many outboard doublers to choose from, ranging in price from $600.00 to $20,000.00. Even the $600 version will probably improve upon your internal doubler to a degree.
Most progressive scan DVD players simply include a higher quality doubler that operates in the analog domain as part of their circuitry; this is good--less cables, less distance for the original signal to pick up noise, etc.
Some progressive scan DVD players doube in the digital domain. This will yield the best result. The new Mits player just got a rave review in SGHT, it doubles in the digital domain, and for list 775.00, looks like a winner.
It all depends on what level of picture quality you're trying to achieve. I notice a difference between an outboard doubler and my set's internal doubler. The outboard doubler wins in red saturation and handling complex geometry. But not enough for *me* to justify a 600.00 outlay. Maybe I'll notice a big enough difference with the Mits player to justify it.

The little voices told me to get back to work.
- thanks for that enlightening info... Snodog 20:57:50 10/03/00 (5)
  and the little voices just told me to finish my complex analysis homework, heeheehee!
  - Re: thanks for that enlightening info... Karl W. 00:30:13 10/04/00 (4)
    It's a matter of taste. True progressive scan has never been interlaced. Line doubling an interlaced signal will not produce a true progressive scan signal. One of the things true progressive scan does is reduce artifacts. Line doubling 480 interlaced does not do this.
    - Re: thanks for that enlightening info... SNodog 12:41:33 10/04/00 (3)
      yah but did you know the video on a DVD is interlaced (therefore a progressive scan DVD player de-interlaces it-impossible for it NEVER to have been not interlaced)? what difference does it make if it has progressive processing from the DVD player and then the TV, or just from the TV?
      - Re: thanks for that enlightening info... Karl W. 14:14:52 10/04/00 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: thanks for that enlightening info... posted by SNodog on October 04, 2000 at 12:41:33:
        
        I tried posting this but does not look like it did. Here is why it makes a difference. I got this information from Widesreen Review. 1:A dvd that is mastered from film holds all of the information needed for an accurate progressive image, any external doubler(whether built into the tv or not) must take hints from the analog input for frame allocation. 2:Since the signal form a dvd is digital, the progressive conversion can be performed digitally inside the player, perserving the signal quality up to the analog output. A stand alone, or in-tv doubler, must take a signal that has come from one digtal to analog conversion, then reconvert it to digital and then back to d/a for display. THIS CAUSES THE PICTURE TO DEGRADE. 3:Line doublers, either in-tv or external, must be able to work with a wide variety of NTSC sources, and their chosen settings are3 not always ideal for dvd. True progressive scan is different from just line doubling the signal in with your tv.
        
        ahhh... Snodog 18:24:55 10/04/00 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: thanks for that enlightening info... posted by Karl W. on October 04, 2000 at 14:14:52:
        
        thanks for your input into the matter! sounds like the cleanest way to go keeping the progressive scan in the digital domain!
      - Re: thanks for that enlightening info... Karl W. 13:41:06 10/04/00 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: thanks for that enlightening info... posted by SNodog on October 04, 2000 at 12:41:33:
        
        These three points are from Widescreen Review. Progressive scan is more than just line doubling information. You may be satisfied with line doubling only and it will save you some trouble if you are. However here is why progressive scanning is used in dvd players/
        1: A dvd that is material from a film holds all of the information needed for and accurate progressive image. Any external doubler (whether built into the tv or not} must take hints from the analog signal for frame allocatiion 2:Since the signal form a dvd is digital, the progressive conversion can be performed digitally inside the player, perserving the signal quality up to the analog output. A stand alone in-tv-doubler, must take a signal has come from one digital to analog coversion then reconvert it to digital and then back to d/a for display. THIS CAUSES THE PICTURE TO DEGRADE. 3:Line doublers,either in-tv or external, must be able to work with a variety of Ntsc sources, and their chosen settings are not always ideal for dvd. I forget all of the other articles on the subject. I am pretty sure Widescreen Review had done detailed articles on the subject. So the answer to your orginal question is really,no. You currently are not viewing progressive scan but rather line doubled interlaced which is close but not entirely the same. From what I have seen there is an improvement but not a tremendous one. But with videophiles, small differences to some can be tremendous differences with with them. Personally, I do not care that much for tv or movies and enjoy music. But I do know the answer to the question. Try it and see if it is worth it too you. It may be. You have a very high-end tv and a true progressive signal may bring it too the next level. Try Msb and that way you will not have to buy a new dvd player if you decide to try progressive scan.
Re: i have a progressive scan TV and non-prog. scan DVD, do both need to be prog. scan? Karl W. 12:56:58 10/03/00 (0)
You need a dvd player capable of outputing a progressive scan video signal that would be feed into your tv. You currently are not viewing a progressive scan picture since your dvd player is not progressive scan. You will need another dvd player or have your current one modified by msbtech.com to output a progressive signal. I think the cost is about 450.00.

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