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I have an old Fosgate DSL2(10 channel). I've been very happy with it but the time has come to update. I work next to a "high end" audio video store and I mentioned to them that I wanted to upgrade to the Citation model 5. they told me to come talk to them when they had their demo theater built, so I did. When I listened to their system(all Sunfire), I found that it lacked the "spacial" quality that Jim Fosgate created. This Sunfire Theater Grand II system sounded great but seemed to lack the "surround" quality. Am I on glue here, what else is out there? From reading this Asylum I found B & K, are they any good? Is Citation any good since Jim Fosgate has now left? Please help, I haven't looked into this for years.
Follow Ups:
hey everyone-happy holidays,i've just purchased a new parasound avc1800 w/tuner& dd/dts& the dac onboared for $ 1100 new ,i haven't listened to it yet , but this an upgrade from my rotel rsp-980 pro-logic unit , i have a panasonic a320 dvd player , i didn't check around much , but it seems that most of the other "high-end" units were several times more expensive, does anyone own or have an opinion on this unit yet ? i can alway's upgrade w/ a 100% trade-in, i'm scaling down my system & this was the most logical choice that i was aware of.advance thanx for responses.ronbo
Don't know if you are aware that the Citation line has been discontinued. Last year, Madrigal (e.g., proceed) issued trade-in offers to owners of Citation 7's towards Citation 5's or Proceed AVP's. I got the AVP and like it a lot. It doesn't have any of the 7's great Fosgate surround modes, but with AC3 and DTS much more available today, I don't miss those modes too much.Unfortunately, the AVP doesn't have the modular upgradeability of other units; e.g., Theta. It does have the advantage of a straight analogue pass through (no A/D then D/A conversion) path which many other preamp/pros lack (so if records are your thing, that should be considered). The AVP's remote is very simple to use, but is not illuminated (no big deal) and only controls the AVP. Lastly, the AVP does not have 5.1 analogue inputs, so no multichannel SACD or DVD Audio, and does not have component video inputs/outputs.
I suggest that you consider Lexicon also. Their models have excellent matrix surround modes, and have a stellar reputation of providing upgrades to existing customers, even allowing trade-in's of old units for new models. This stuff changes so fast, the upgrade path (whether it be through a mfg, or via a modular design) is highly important.
I strongly suggest you give the Cal Audio SSP 2500. I put it head to head with Proceed AVP and truly preferred the Cal. That being said they are both excellent choices and you can probably find a used AVP on audiogon since its been out a while. The Cal is a new product with better DAC's, plus it comes with a Pronto as its standard remote. I can't reccomend this product enough. You owe it to yourself to give this baby a shot.Good Luck,
jl
I bought the B&K Reference 30 which is their current HT processor and love the sound quality. The DAC is very good and it has analog bypass for all inputs. I use that for tape, phono and FM.I upgraded from a receiver so I never really compared it to other preamps in it's class, but I hear in that price range the Anthem AVM2 is worthy of consideration. The bells & whistles and DAC of the Parasound AVC-2500 also supposedly compare well to the B&K, but it has no 2-channel analog bypass.
I have been very happy with the B&K. If something better were to come along in the next couple months, I still would not regret my decision. BTW, movies are phenomenol on this piece.
Robert
Are the DACs in the B&K 24/96k or 24/192k? How does it compare to a/v-5800 or Onkyo 989 in terms of features, eg. THX-EX, DTS/DD 7.1 etc? I am in the market for a new prepro separate? Thanks
The B&K has 8 24bit/96KHz DACs, with the ability to upgrade to 24/192KHz DACs as a pin compatible drop-in replacement.The Ref 30 has THX-EX 7.1 capability, plus DD/DTS decoding. An upgrade is supposed to be available after CES to add 6.1 capability.
It's a superb preamp for the price they're asking!
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Where can I get good prices on these B&K online? Can you help? Thanks
Not only must the dacs be upgradeable but the line reciever must be as well. This can be decieving as a piece can have 24/192 dacs yet still only be capable of recieving and decoding a 24/96 signal. The Proceed AVP is an example. Although the dacs are 24/96 capable, the digital line reciever is 24/48 so without a major hardware upgrade the unit could not truly process such siganls. What is the case with B&K?
They can definitely handle 24/96 as stereo PCM. We'd have to check with B&K about handling 24/192... But then again, with the firewire ports capability (400 Mb/s) I'd guess anything higher than 23/96 will come through firewire.Note: While the Firewire port is installed, it is not activated at this time, and a controller update will be required to make it useful.
Yes anything greater than 2 channel 24/96 meaning that 5.1 24/96 would have to be handled by firewire. Make sure you ask them what the line reciever can handle. If you ask the question," Can the unit process 24/192?" you may get a yes answer but it can be misleading. Ask,"Can the unit process 24/192 at full resolution?"
----If you ask the question," Can the unit process 24/192?" you may get a yes answer but it can be misleading. Ask,"Can the unit process 24/192 at full resolution?" ----And even if you get a "no" answer, one still shouldn't exclude the B&K from your list of potential purchases. I challenge anyone to find a processor than can support 24/192 today through firewire. The specifications are simply not finalized yet. No matter what B&K, Meridian, Krell or anybody says about hardware upgradability, we really won't know until it's out. You may need to replace your processor at that time no matter what, so just buy what sounds good today! ;-)
Robert
What he said.
There is a lot availible these days. It depends on how much you would like to spend and your preferences for features. Meridian is indeed very good as it Theta. I think the new B&K 307 reciever is excellent for the money. I have just returned from my hi-fi dealer and happen to listen to it while I was there. I personally use a California Audio Labs SSP-2500 which I found to be the best sounding on 2 channel recording using the analog-bypass of all of the units I auditioned. It does not have as many bells and whistles as some but as for sound quality it has no peers. Check out issue 38 of Widescreen Review for a through review of the unit and entire system. Widescreen found it to be the best sounding by a very wide margin of all surround processors that they have reviewed and they have reviewed almost everything on the market. But at 5400.00 with the video switcher costing an additonal 2100.00 it may be more than many are willing to spend. But the combination is tremendous and will offer you a no compromise combination. If you are looking to spend about half of this I would strongly recommend the B&K stuff as they have really been producing some very good stuff lately.
The Meridian 861 has transformed our system. For its cost it should have. The 568 is supposed to be close but there could be others as good around.Good hunting
John
PS: tell us what you end up with please.
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