 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
In Reply to: Several Questions - Purchasing Home posted by Brian LaCroix on January 24, 2001 at 05:46:37:
... room size question without knowing intended screen size. However this rule of thumb might help-Take the screen height and, using high end projectors with line quadrupling, the best seating position is about 6X back. With lesser quality images the distance should be 11X.
"What brands/types of front projectors should we be looking at? That's an area I'm not knowledgeable in. Our budget for a projector and screen is $8-10K. I understand there are CRT, DLP, and LCD technologies and that CRT's are out of my price range (plus I don't want to deal with all the maintenance."
I'm not expert in the various options you might face but suggest that a rear projector might suit your purposes the best. From what I understand the DLP & LCD technologies are even more expensive than CRT. CRT can be a pain to set up optiminally - our Barco took over a year because there are so many variables to adjust.
I'm an advocate of a combined audio/HT room so all the considerations of good audio can apply. There have been many posts on AA about this.
I would look for a room with solid walls & floor so the whole house does not rock when viewing films like "Matrix" and one where all the speaker leads can be readily concealed.
Combine all your audio/video needs with other practicalities and the personal tastes/living needs of spouse & family and I guess you have a n interesting hunt ahead.
Good luck
John
Follow Ups:
I've definately ruled out the rear projection system for several reasons, one being that I have Magnepan speakers. Magnepan speakers don't really like to be sitting next to a 'box', aka TV. So RPTV's are not an option.I've been doing some thinking about room layout. I'm going to build a modified 'flexi-rack' that I've seen on one of the AA forums. I'd like to build it two shelves high and three shelves wide. This way I could have a relatively short (18" high) but wide (6.5') shelving unit that would offer good ventilation, look nice and not intrude into the room. If we put a screen just above that, it should make for a nice looking and symmetrical room layout.
That goes to your next question, screen size. With the space the speakers need (preferrably 3 feet from side and rear walls), and the speakers being 2 feet wide, that means if we have a 16 foot wide room, we can have a 6' wide screen -- 16' - (2 speakers x (2' width + 3' side wall clearance + 1' from edge of screen). I feel that a 6 - 8 foot wide screen it plenty. I'm not going for HUGE size, instead I'd like to have a good size screen with a good quality picture... while at the same time buying the needed side space I need to really get my speakers to sing.
Using your calculations (6 times height), tell me if my understanding is correct:
6' wide screen = 41" height w/ 16:9 ratio.
41" x 6 = 246" or 20' 6"That seems like a long way back. I was thinking more along the 14-16' viewing distance, meaning an approximately 25' room to give my rear channels some room to sing. Please let me know if this sounds reasonable.
As far as front projectors go, how about the Sony VPL-VW10HT? I've seen it in the $6000 range, which would give me enough room to get a good screen and line doubler/quadrupler (any suggestions?).
And what is this 2.5x something-er-other stat on screens? I understand it somehow makes the images brighter, but how does it help viewing and what is the range I should look at in a room that may sometimes have some ambient light?
Sorry for my rambling...
Brian
> That seems like a long way back. I was thinking more along the 14-16' viewing distance, meaning an approximately 25' room to give my rear
channels some room to sing. Please let me know if this sounds reasonable.You want the front speakers and the screen in the same plane. If you need 3' behind your speakers (I would think that is a MINIMUM for Magnepans, 4 or 5 feet would not be out of the question) the screen should be 3' from the wall too. So that would put your viewing distance (which does seem reasonable, even a bit distant perhaps considering the speakers will sound better if you are closer than that)... Let's re-think... let's say you have 4 feet behind the speakers and screen and you are going to sit 12 feet back. That puts you 16 feet from the wall behind the speakers. I think you will be quite happy with the sound if you are sitting in the center of the room so let's say you ought to have a 32' room for this setup. If that turns out to be a bit large for the size house you are considering (it probably is) then shave some length off the rear of the room... keep your seating area 16 feet from the wall behind the speakers but have maybe only 12 feet behind the listeners... or maybe even 10'. Mount the side surrounds 1 or 2 feet behind the viewing area and put the rear center speakers (you need 2 of these 2 to 6 feet apart depending on how close they are to the listeners) farther back, even the full 10 or 12 feet. So your room dimensions should be around 26' to 28' deep and probably close to 20 feet wide. Higher ceilings are better than lower ceilings too. And the room should be left-right symmetrical... if there is a window on the left, there should be another on the right in the same location. If there is a sloped ceiling, the slope should be symmetrical in relationship to the viewers... you don't want a ceiling that is 8' on the left and 14' on the right. The wall behind the speakers should be symmetrical... anything that exists on the left half of that wall should have an identical object on the right half of the wall in the same relative position.
The problem with LCD, D-ILA (an improved type of LCD) and DLP projectors is that they are all loaded with artifacts. Especially at the price points you are considering. LCDs do not turn on and off as fast as CRT phosphors, this leads to color bleed in action sequences... you have to know what you are looking for but it is there. DLPs in your price range will have only 1 chip doing all 3 colors instead of 3 chips. This leads to significant motion artifacts also, but they are more severe and can be incredibly objectionable. The newer LCDs use an array of tiny magnifying lenses over each pixel to magnify each one so that on the projection screen, the bee-hive pixel pattern is about 50% to 60% less obvious compared to projectors which don't have the lens array.
Neither LCD or DLP projectors can make a black that is really black. You lose a lot of shadow detail, though the new D-ILA flavor of LCD is perhaps 50% better in this regard than previous LCD technology.
The single chip DLP projectors were originally designed for static computer text and presentation displays and high quality motion was not a consideration. Because of that, single-chip DLP projectors are pushed beyond their limits when projecting movies with considerable variation in image content from frame to frame. The mirrors on the chip can only tilt so fast and they have to put enough R, G, and B on the screen long enough for you to actually see an image. This generally results in mild to severe motion artifacts. Furthermore, DPLs in this price range suffer from, for lack of a better name, pixel shimmer... the pixels just do not seem as stable on the screen as with other projection technologies, they seem to "wink" almost subliminally, like stars at night rather than as stable points of light. This is most obvious in detail areas of images, and less obvious in areas of solid color or little detail.
Most LCD, D-ILA and DLP projectors, especially those in your price range, won't have enough resolution to use with a line quadrupler. You will need to very carefully select the projector and resolution enhancement device to work together... a bad choice here will screw everything up.
... really do not know enough about the equipment at your disposal. However a few more factors you might need to consider Brian.With a projector you are limited to the angle which can be used. We have a very large cathedral ceiling so a projector hanging down would have looked obscene and would have required extensive engineering to make the ghastly cradle. So we put it on the floor and had a table top made (being very careful not to restrict ventillation). I'll email you a photo. Anyway, the bottom of the screen could only be slightly above the projector lenses. If a unit iss mounted from the ceiling the reverse holds true - the top of the screen can only be slightly below the bottom of the lenses.
The second vital factor is the resolution of the projector. This varies a lot even within makes with progressive scan, line doubling etc complicating the scene even more. A large screen is great PROVIDED the playing and projection equipment can give a quality picture. As you can see from the file I sent you the 6X factor is what applies for us using a EMD110-HD Stewart screen 96" x 54" in 16:9 format. This gives us varying results depending on the software and was certainly the maximum we could have used.
The 11X factor is one quoted in the latest TPV as one which applied in the past but can be improved upon with current gear.
One final thought re your excellent Maggies. Why feel confined to having a rear projection TV against the wall with speakers right next door? The RPTV could be out a bit from the wall with wall shelves behind as we have done and the Maggies a bit further to either side. A centre fill speaker might be necessary (difficult to match to the Maggies I know) but I bet that would work OK. Besides, if you have a screen on a wall you will have the Maggies in a bad position will you not? I understand they are like the electrostats we use & need space behind.
Nuff for now as I'm not sure I'm helping.
Regards
John
First issue with these types of situations is you need to be able to darken the room to a near "black" level. Hard to do in "relatively" sunny Texas, especially since you said a living room. I would look into some professional installers, who are ISF certified. They should be able to give you some information. I would also look at the last few issues of Stereophile Guide to home Theater (don't look at the reviews, they are all the same) for setup hints. There is a running column on home theater setup. Hope this helps.
the same amount of room darkening than front projectors?You make a good point against a combined lounge room/HT if you want to view during the day. Generally we do not althoigh can blacken the room effectively with outside roll down shutters if required. Incidentally these shutters are insulated and offer excellent protection from heat, cold and burglars!!!
John
I don't think so, but even a regular TV looks better in a darkened room. Please note you should have a bit of amibenent light for a monitor.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
