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In Reply to: Satellite Grounding posted by Taco on July 29, 2001 at 23:21:43:
I had a DirecTV system running with the grounding on to a cold water pipe in my basement- No problem!
there is a coax cable out there that has a heavy copper wire attached to it. The rod works too!
Dman
Follow Ups:
I would go to a pipe, but there's none close. I've already bought an 8' copper grounding rod and 6 AWG wire for the ground run.
had the same issue: was nervous about a long run of ground wire to the nearest cold water pipe.
i pounded the grounding rod next to the foundation right where the signal cable goes thru the wall, and attached the ground block to the wall and then ran the solid core copper grounding wire from the ground block to the satellite grounding rod and then inside the house to the basement where i could clamp it to a cold water pipe, which ties my satellite dish grounding rod, the ground block, and the cold water pipes to the ground of the electrical circuit, preventing a potential difference in ground state on the system.as origionally installed, the electrical service box was grounded to the cold water feed via a solid core aluminum wire.
i had an electrician install dedicated lines for the hi-fi and video systems, and asked him to add a grounding rod for the electrical service box (in addition to the ground on the cold water feed pipe ) and replace all the aluminum with copper. yes, he laughed at me, and yes, now there is no noise anywhere in either system.
lots of people are having home theater built into their new homes, but the electrical systems feeding them are still in the dark ages. don't count on your electrician or even the HT consultant to have a clue about noise traveling on the neutral and ground circuits.
i recently looked at a "state-of-the-art" cable, telephone, music, video and intercom wiring system: a good idea--put all your noise, signal and current wires bundled tightly together and running parallel all over the house! wooppee ! now you can have all your noise traveling on all your circuits all the time!
having electricians or video installers do your audio/video circuits is like letting the guy who cuts your grass do your hair--they really can't tell the difference.
I really can't get to a cold water pipe, except exposed through the house. My family room sets on grade (no basement), and my basement is partial on the other side of the house. I always thought the cold water pipe "ground" had to be bonded to the electrical ground anyway? Maybe not in some areas. Also does the ground HAVE to be solid core? Home Depot sold me some 6 AWG stranded for grounding (actually they said 8 AWG would be enough, but I went with 6).
Is your electrical service box grounded to the cold water feed? This is the way it's commomly done, and the clamp should be right where the copper pipe comes into the house--on the street side of the water meter, so that if there's a break or service done on the plumbing you don't lose your ground.
> > "I really can't get to a cold water pipe, except exposed through the house. " < <
An exterior connection to a spigot on the cold water pipe should be fine, if you can trace this pipe all the way back to to the service box ground. Make sure it's a "clean and tight" connection. remember that if you have some plumbing done or a break in this line, you will be floating the ground on your dish. You'll probably notice the noise.
Stranded ground strap is fine.
Yea, my water pipe is grounded, but I believe this ground wire is also run over to the main electrical box ground bus. The electrical ground runs outside to what looks like an aluminum grounding rod (should I switch this to copper?) Again, I have no good access to any grounding path. All the exterior spigots and rod are way around the house.
The grounding rod you see is Galvanized, and req. by NEC code. Copper will ROT. (it also tooooo soft to drive 8feet into the ground)
I suggest driving a rod (see prev. post) by the dish and run #6 wire 6" below ground around to the Service Ground and use a pipe or teardrop clamps at both ends. Not to a water pipe. Remember Insurance companies are in the business of not paying claims!
Good Luck
Mitch
Hey, just talked to my Village electrical code guy. He says it's OK to keep separate ground rods, as the chance for any interaction is slim. I'm also using a satellite surge suppressor in-line before the coax to box connection. Also says copper should be OK to drive as most are copper covered steel and wasn't worried about the rotting problem.
Is this the Electrical Inspector you spoke with??? Ya made me do it.... I looked up the code in the NEC book. Article 250-52. I can't quote all of it now. I strongly recommend contacting the dish mfg and asking them. If the dish has a sticker on it that indicates appropriate gnd method then it superseeds the NEC code. Otherwise I would call city hall and ask for the Electrical Inspector for the City, County etc, whoever monitors the area. I do know some dishs' recommend not going to the service ground and req. a supplemental ground. But this would have to be indicated on the dish.
Your post just does not sound or fit the NEC book. Local codes do vary and can superseed NEC codes, so call and make sure. That is what they are there for. Most good electricians, when in doubt ask the local inspector. Cause ya never know!
Good Luck
Mitch
That was the local inspector I talked with! I don't think the dish manual said to ground back to mains, just to put in a ground rod near the satellite installation. I was just worried about having "floating" ground potentials with the two rods. The City guy acknowledged it could happen, but chances were slim and the coax surge supressor should further help out.
That's great! Now you have the Gospel. Better to be safe than deal with an insurance investigator (worst case scenario).
Enjoy,
Mitch
Wheezer, thanks for all the input! I just hooked up the dish temporarily and it works great. Got a "90" signal right of the mark and then tweaked it to 120. Now I've got to find my sledge to drive that rod and drill a few holes in my siding!
Great, did he tell you to use a #10solid green wire between the pipe clamp and the dish's ground???? Out of curiousity, what kind of Gnd rod did you wind up getting?
I'll give you a tip on driving it in with ease,Have to get back to you later cause I gotta get goin' now..
That's a good mark that fast you'll have a really good picture.
What TV do you have....Mitch
He said that stranded wire to the ground is OK (I'm using 6 AWG). I haven't checked the rod. It was the thickest copper ground rod HD had! Probably copper coated steel. My TV is not the latest. I got it about 4 years ago in Hong Kong (32" Panasonic, don't remember the model number). It's set up for S-Video input and Coax, no component. It's also multi-country capable (PAL, NSC, etc.)!
If you haven't bought it already I would strongly using solid. Once you torque down the whichever clamp you are using,(pipe or teardrop) the strands will spread and you won't get a solid connection.
That makes sense on the rod. If it were pure copper after on shot from a sledge, forget it!
Are you going to use Belden 1694-5a for an IC between the dish and box?
Canare connectors???? All this stuff will make you a very happy camper.
Check out the cable asylum.
I have a great recipe for a Svid cable. Let me know if you are interested.Mitch
Does it really matter what kind of RG-6 is used between the dish and the box? I'm just using standard satellite cable from an install kit, nothing fancy, but you mention the use of 1694 or 1695 as seeming to make a difference. What kind of difference is it supposed to make?
Steve,The difference if you were to A/B the two would be night and day. I did this w/ my digital cable. After ripping the Cable Company's (Adelphia) cable and putting in Belden 1694a, It was as if my brand spank'n new HDTV went to a step up in all aspects.
Use the Canare connectors for the termination. They are good quality and very reasonably priced.
WHat is the connection "F" or BNC?????
Search posts on 1694a in the cable asylum. You will read some interesting stuff.
WHat kind of TV do you have?????
BTW the interconnect from the box to the TV will make an equal difference as the cable from the dish to the box!!!!!!!!!
1694 or1695 is your choice as to how much you wish to spend. The 1695 is a better cable. But 1694 seems to be what more people are using....
Can you make crimps??????
Hi wheezer,I am using a highly tweaked Sony 61HS10 hdtv with a RCA DTC100 hdtv STB. All the audio and video cables between my component I've hand built with Belden or Canare cable, but I never expected there to be a difference from the dish to the STB. I know on analog cable there is a dramatic difference because there aren't really any circuits to correct for distortion, ghosting, noise, etc as digital has. I understand that it made a difference on your Adelphia cable signal, but I've heard that channels 100 and below are still analog, and of course it would make a difference, but the upper digital channels too? What can I expect besides a bit stronger digital signal? BTW, you are talking about DirecTV dish signals, right, not a BUD(big ugly dish)? The connectors are F connection and I have the tools to crimp.
Steve,The signal coming out of your dish is probably between 1 and 2 gig. If the cable is not broadband rated for at least that you've degraded the signal. The signal from the dish is DIGITAL
Actually on the digital cable, they have filters for all that stuff. It is my understanding from an Adelphia tech., that the chip for decoding the digital signal(cable digital channels) is the same as in the STB. I can't say what the difference would be but it's worth a try, I would not want it to be the weakest link in a system.
If your STB isn't getting the full range signal which included the audio, then the HDTV is compromised.
I would try a couple of BELDEN cables w/ Canare "F" 's on them. 1694a and 1695a. If you are a cable junky (like myself) you might also try adding an extra shield (directional) to the cables!
YA JUST NEVER KNOW!
Good Luck,
Mitch
Checked the rod (and drove it in tonight) and it is steel and what looks like bronze then copper coatings. Went in straight, but was a bear to drive. Sweated like a pig. The clamp has a "V" notch to help hold the wire in place. I already bought some stranded 6 AWG. I'm not too worried about lightning as my dish is tucked in by my 2-story chimney and is only about 8 feet off the ground (for snow/ice removal)I've got 1694A for the cable and Canare F's and Canare crimp tools. I'm waiting on my Canare 5-way stripper! What is your S-Vid recipe? Better than AR and the like?
Forgot to tell you, stick a garden hose in the hole and pound away, makes a huge difference when driving the grounding rod in ..The svid cable is 4 runs of 1506a, Got some new connectors and I'll look into where to order them...
Mitch
What is the construction? Did you unsheath the coax, just twist all together, or let hang loose? Are all the shield braids cross-connected at the ends, used as a floating ground shield (source end grounded)?
I'll send the pictures w/instructions off line.
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