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In Reply to: LCD/DLP vs rear projection/direct view posted by ed rex on August 15, 2001 at 16:16:44:
I've seen numerous LCD displays in dealer demo rooms and if you can ignore the image artifacts, the lack of color saturation and most importantly - the complete inability to render black as any thing more than a faded middling gray - they might just be your ticket. From what I've seen all they give you is big. Low image quality + big isnt a winning combination for a device that requires a screen and an installation with a projector somewhere out in the room itself. Some of which have outrageously noisy fans BTW. I saw a Runco digital system this past Saturday and the fan noise had to be on the order of 40 or 50 dB - and the projector was just about 4 feet above my head. Talk about distracting! Add to that the fact that the image was pale, undersaturated and basically lousy in every way and I was unimpressed to say the least.I will say there are at least two digital displays I've seen that show potential. The first is the new Panasonic Flat screen LCD 16:9 - it does a credible job with blacks and displays a purity and sense of clarity and sharpness that are quite striking - though you will still see image artifacts. I still perceive a certain lack of color range - its a bit like looking at a computer monitor set to 256 colors instead of 16 or 32 bit. There is even occaisional color banding in shaded areas rather than smooth gradual transitions in tone.
The other device that points to an interesting future is the new Mitsubishi 65" RPTV based on the Texas Instruments DLP technology. I saw this two weeks ago in a pitch dark demo room and I thought at first that it was a CRT based unit - the blacks were that good. The thing that was striking about it was an absolute sense of fine detail, clairty and resolution and lack of CRT "blurriness" that was absoulutely striking. This technology has real potential, but IMO its not quite there yet. On Disney's Dinosaur there was an odd squirminess to complex finely detailed objects as they moved (the close ups of the pebbled skin of the dinoasaurs heads, for example) and the set had the worst edge enhancement I've ever seen. During the courtship sequence in theat film, where the dark vines hang vertically against a light sky, there were white lines as broad as the vines themselves on either side of each vine - particularly towards the middle of the screen. There was also obvious moire in a few of the scenes where there were large solid color fields with richly saturated colors.
But the thing that was striking was the lack of focus and convergence issues that are endemic to multi tube CRT display devices. There was an absoulte clarity and sense of focus that exceeded ANY CRT based system I've ever seen. Problem is its a $15k device and its still got problems but as these devices are pushed to higher contrast ratios and more refined designs there is no doubt in my mind they will ultimately outdistance CRTs as the superior display technology. But I bet it will be a few more generations of development before that happens...
Oh yeah, all DLPs are not created equal. I saw the Panny RPTV DLP (also $15k) and it couldnt do blacks to save its life. I had the chance to adjust brightness, contrast and color to my hearts content in a darkened room and I never got anything better than a really tired and faded looking gray with an overall image that can only be described as washed out.
joe
Follow Ups:
Yup, I'd definately extend the same offer as Dan G. After taking into consideration your 'viewpoint(s)', I rented 2 more DVD's this past weekend.....15 Minutes and Enemy at the Gates. Both these flicks have numerous dark scenes that I scrutinized closely (to the point of distraction with the movie). I am absolutely convinced that 1. black level (or the reported lack thereof) is truly not an issue. Black was so close to black words can barely describe. 2. Color saturation is every bit as vivid as the best rear projection and on par with any CRT.Anyone who claims 'pale washed out crappy' or 'dishwater video' from a LCD or DLP projector simply has not seen one properly setup recently. They have made amazing progress in this area of video of late. I am blown away every evening.
If your in the Sacramento area and want to see for yourself, drop me a line. You need to see this!!!!
***Color saturation is every bit as vivid as the best rear projection and on par with any CRT.***Anyone who makes a statement like that hasn't seen many, if any, CRTs in a dark room. If you knew anything about the workings of LCDs you'd know that your statement is quite impossible.
***Anyone who claims 'pale washed out crappy' or 'dishwater video' from a LCD or DLP projector simply has not seen one properly setup recently.***
Proper setup? An idiot can set up an LCD projector. That's one of the primary reasons why folks buy them.
I've seen the recent Sony and some of the InFocus units. None of them meet my personal standards for quality video.
Richard - So sorry, a thousand pardons:**Proper setup? An idiot can set up an LCD projector. That's one of the primary reasons why folks buy them.**
I guess I went off the trail and into Idiotsville when I thought this was a forum for folks to express their opinions for the benefit of others. I did not realize that we were free to post our opinions only if they align with yours or else suffer name calling and derision. However, I don't recall ever implying that you would need a PHD to setup an LCD projector....I'll work on my wording so that other's might not read that into my post(s) in the future. Also, I knew there was a reason I bought the projector, not for the picture, but because it was made for idiots like me to setup. Thanks for identifying that for me, it was bugging me for a long time.
**Anyone who makes a statement like that hasn't seen many, if any, CRTs in a dark room. If you knew anything about the workings of LCDs you'd know that your statement is quite impossible.**
I respectfully suggest that perhaps you are confusing 'color saturation' with brilliance. You see, good color saturation need not come from projectile CRT, eyeball burning, headache inducing color levels. Don't know what you look for in a picture, but I look for accuracy in color reproduction. I can't for the life of me recall looking at a richly colored flower in the garden that gave me a 'CRT headache'. Maybe I should use more Miracle grow.....
**None of them meet my personal standards for quality video.**
Finally, I certainly pass no judgement upon your personal standards for quality video. I'm simply speaking to what my eyes see, and the enjoyment I derive thereof. The fact that I run the test dept at major broadcast equipment manufacturer (see e-mail address then look us up on the web) has absolutely nothing to do with my interest in video. The fact that 90% of everything broadcast over air, cable or satellite goes through our equipment in no way qualifyies me to offer my opinion on the setup I have at home, or to speak to the visual results of the intricies of LCD technology. I can only hope you accept my humble apology for being so presumptious.
ever said or implied that you are an idiot. I'm sorry you feel that you are.
I'll show you a 100" LCD that will make you change your mind.
Vivid amazing picture, crisper than tube, rich colors, and works in lighting.
Sanyo XP21n.....Had a CRT owner over a while back who fell in love with it too- he liked the blacks.
dg
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