 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
the horror!the horror!
Follow Ups:
Pete, please let us know how it goes with the Panny plasma. I'm shaking with jealousy.Sounds like you've gone through the same insane process I have.
Just to help reinforce your Panny decision, you might enjoy a recent post of mine at the AVS forum, wherein I did some comparison shopping: the latest 'n greatest plasma vs the Panny TH42PWDU4:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=2d35743edbf5c5f166f3b1ee64e0f559&threadid=104773
I can't actually afford one until I convince my wife that turning tricks is in our best home theater interest. Still, I've made my "virtual" decision.
Have fun.
Rich.
(Oh yeah, let us know if you detect the infamous Panny "buzzing" problem).
built in december 2001 (just-in-time). if you put your good ear very close there is a buzzing noise from the "chopper" that you can not hear from further than ~1/2 meter away. there is no fan noise--I'm not sure there is a fan in there at all. I'll cut it open tomorrow and see.from any reasonable listening position (I'd say 3 meters is about the minimum distance if you're watching NTSC signals) the thing is dead quiet...scary quiet.
one more thing:
it's suprizingly easy to lift, carry, and move around--
could this be love?
Thanks Pete, good to hear the buzz isn't a problem. I've listened to each of the Panny screens I've encountered here in Toronto and they were all very quiet. Some have said the buzz is only a problem in higher altitude locations, so maybe that's it.I assume you've got no dead pixels as well. Whew, your on track to good times.
I know the Panny is awesome with DVD, but I'll be curious to know what you think of broadcast NTSC pictures - how acceptable they are on your plasma. I've seen a little analog cable broadcast on two panels.
One panel absolutely sucked - very soft and grainy. The other was surprisingly crisp - quite livable.Rich H.
first let me correct myself on the noise claims I made above:last night i had another insomnia session and stayed up intermittantly reading David McCullough's "John Adams" and watching the Weather channel. with the amps off (no audio) i could hear a faint buzzing at my listening seat ~12 feet distant, comming from the panasonic. be advised that it is an order of magnitude lower in volume than the buzzing from the 27" CRT I had there before. the sound is only detectable when you are perfectly still in a very quiet house, and even then you must concentrate to detect it.
the set is on a dedicated line with a technical ground, but there is a 500 watt halogen torche lamp in the room--i can't be certain why i was able to hear the tv last night--because the snow outside made the background noise even lower than normal, because of the halogen lamp, or some other interference...
it would be fair for me to wait and life with the set for a few weeks before i post hyperbolic performance claims.
there are no dead pixels...and since i haven't seen any i'm not going to look. the build quality is what you might expect for a set that costs $5500. but in all seriousness, you can't honestly think of the plasma viewscreen as a machine: there are no speaker grills, knobs, buttons, lights or wires--it truely is a free-standing work of art--nothing like a television. It is art, pure art. It is entirely new. It is the future.
I have not yet received the component cables or wall mount bracket from the company i ordered the set from. The video input is from a Monster Silver S-video cable feed from the Sony SAT A50 digital satellite receiver.
There is an enormous variation of signal quality in NTSC broadcasts. Despite the fact that satellite transmissions are all digital and should not suffer from the kinds of transmission degradations to which analog signals are prone (some digital cable transmissions are analog--"digital cable" is a marketing term, not a fact of life), this wide variation in signal quality is readily apparent with a satellite feed, and viewing these signals with a high-fidelity monitor only makes this even more annoying.
C-span and PBS seem to have the most consistant quality of signal, and the FOX network is consistantly the worst signal, though any "live" broadcast tends to be the best quality of which NTSC is capable. NBC has the widest variability--going from the best to the worst at any given moment. A live C-span broadcast is a sight to behold--deep blacks and crisp borders, with colors that make the French impressionists look like monochrome. The movie channels TCM, AMC are very good, especially when they send a cinemascope or "letterbox" signal. Very satisfying! Some of the commercials are broadcast in widescreen with amazing fidelity...I hadn't realized what a wide variation there is.
Since I don't have the componant cables yet I can't say what the 480i signal from DVD looks like and how well the de-interlacer in the panny works. The S-video feed from DVD is wonderful...I'm trying not to get ahead of myself before I run out of superlatives. I can say that the 3:2 pulldown is wonderful! I love black and white films, and viewing film noir on the panny is a royal treat!
In summation, based on 480i DVD and NTSC thru S-video, I can say that the major problem with the panny plasma is "garbage in, garbage out".
it does a great job of scaling, de-lacing and 3:2 pulldown, but when you see a good signal displayed it raises the bar far too much for the kind of crap you too often get with NTSC (how many transmissions even are in 240i? some of them look like 50i !)
Thanks Pete.One last question (I think):
I'm sure you must have done some plasma research on the AVS forum (?). Given all the possible problems associated with the Panny - which it seems you've happily dodged - how did you end up deciding on buying it?
Did you look at any other brands? (The NEC 42MP3, perhaps?).
(Sorry, I'm taking time away from your viewing time here :0)Rich H.
once I'd decided on a plasma it wasn't hard to find the best one: the 50" panasonic with a 1080i source looked so much better than anything else even a blind person could see it. The technology is the same in the 42" model--with fewer pixels, hence the not-ready-for-HD designation (no 42" model is true HD--they just don't have the pixels to qualify--the Achillies heal of fixed-pixel displays. the only true HD plasmas are 50" and above).models I auditioned: Sony, Pioneer, Fujitsu, NEC, Hitachi, Philips
of these the NEC was second best (by a considerable margin, in my opinion, but priced $thousands less). I didn't like the styling of the Sony, as I prefer a black bezel, which is more neutral and blends well with any decor.
the Fujitsu had the worst picture. the Pioneer was the least expensive (they can't give them away). the Philips was the most overpriced (value/cost)
the NEC 42" you mentioned is a great value/cost, but it's picture is not in the same league as the panasonics, and the arrangement of the input board (on the side) means you have a bunch of cables dangling along the edge--which ruins one of the coolest things about plasma.
the panasonic input board is in the middle and arranged so that you can hide all the cables behind the set--thus giving that very cool
"art on a wall" picture frame look.so the decision of which plasma to buy was a no-brainer: there really is only one brand (today--next week somebody may discover the next technology breakthrough). in fact, many plasma manufacturers share the sourcing for the glass and even the electronics, and just slap on the name of their company as it's being loaded in the boxes.
panasonic bought the glass technology company and does their own electronics, so their set is all in-house technology--and it shows.
the real decision was whether to buy the 50" HDTV or the 42" EDTV.
as I mentioned previously, I simply drew the two sets on the wall and sat in the listening chair to see how it felt. The 50" set really dominated the wall of the family room, which I thought would cause endless battles with the wife (I could live with it). And I knew that most of the programming I'd be watching would be NTSC broadcasts, which have such unpredictable signal variation (from OK to unwatchable) that I'd have to get the Faroudja Native Rate video processor (which is built-to-order for your fixed pixel display: can take a bad NTSC feed and make it "good", takes an excellent 1080i HDTV signal and makes it "AWESOME!!!") which would add another $5000 to the price. Add the cables and HDTV satellite box and whatnot and you're at $20,000 easy.but the real reason: I couldn't get the 50" panasonic because every distributor I called was out of stock and on backorder. I couldn't get one for love or money. They had one at the Bang & Oldson store in the mall but wouldn't sell it for any price. People will do anything to get them: there's a blank spot on the wall of the Tweeter's in Wilmington because somebody broke in the place at night and stole the plasma right off the wall. It's the only thing they took. I understand.
I'd been calling around for weeks and finally got one guy who said a shipment of 42"s had just arrived would I like one of them today because they'd be gone tomorrow. so I said hell yes. hell--I honestly believe I got it the same week it was built!
Anyway...I just love it. I really really love it. It's beautiful.
Here's an interesting review of the 42" models from Sony and Panasonic:
"...I didn't like the styling of the Sony, as I prefer a black bezel, which is more neutral and blends well with any decor."I agree Pete. With light colored bezels I find myself constantly aware of the bezel; that the image has been framed and contained. This adds another layer of visual distraction to the experience. I find the Panasonic bezels are the best, being extremely dark (which is better with letterboxed images, so the bevel does not contrast sharply with the dark bands), and the fact that they are extremely thin bevels. When I see the Panny, I'm aware of the image and only the image, like a big wonderful picture cast in the air.
I'm glad you pointed out the cabling issue with the NEC vs. the Panasonic! It's been almost impossible to find someone who has seen both those models. (BTW, can you confirm that it was the newest NEC MP3 that you saw, not the earlier MP2?).
I agree about the Panny 50." Nothing really touches it. My local stores have 42, 50 and 61" models spanning brands from Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, Marantz, Pioneer and Fujitsu. The Panny 50" is the clear winner to me. It simply has the clearest, creamiest, most noise and artifact free picture of all. When looking at a shot of the blue sky on most plasmas I'm aware of pixelization and processing errors. On the Panny it's like looking at...the sky.
I'm in exactly the same decor situation as you regarding cabling/size of plasma/size of wife's temper. I find the extra pixels of the 50" definitely make a difference in the way sharpness is extended to the smallest of objects in the picture - something the 42" models have a bit more trouble with. However, the 42" inch looks so bloody awesome it's easy to forget such quibbles. Besides, the 50" in Canadian dollars is only for rich guys.
BTW, Pete, do you notice something about reviews in the Home Theater world? They don't really talk about the viewing experience the way we audiophiles get into the subtleties of how various equipment effects the listening experience. In a HT mag review, all products, especially display screens, either pass a similar set of A-B-C-D tests or they don't. A plasma or LCD projector either has black levels "as good as" a CRT or they do not. As if these tests told the reader just what the screen looked like. There is very little prose devoted to how the differences between displays actually affect the perception of the picture (like publishing only the specs of an SS amp vs. a single-ended 300B tube amp, without any mention of how the sonic experience contrasts with each amp). Any display can be "clear," "rich," "colorful" ...but Plasma pictures look decidedly different - smoother and more organic - than other designs, yet I rarely see such things discussed in these terms.
Anyway, have fun.
Rich.
what's puzzling about the whole business of High Definition video is how little anyone seems to know about it. After all, High Definition has been around for 20 years, 30 even (I do believe that HDTV has been announced as "comming" every single year since 1970, which by the way was the same year we were told that "In 20 years all the oil will be gone!"Well, here it is 30 years later, and you still can't get HDTV (except in Japan) while gasoline is more plentyful and less expensive than at any time in it's history (in the US).
So I suspect there's a fraud, a vast Right Wing conspiracy to prevent the far left Liberals from seeing The West Wing in 1080i.
Take the high-end retailers for example. It used to be that automobile salesmen were the kings of not knowing a damned thing about the products they sell, but today, here in the 21st century, it's the people who sell audio/video. They are the most clueless bunch since the Republican Congress that thought they could force Bill Clinton out of office (only Bill Clinton himself could do that, and even he had a hard time of it).
And the entheusast magazines and websites...even worse! They spit and foam and spew as if they know what the hell they are thinking, but if you look behind the curtain, what you'll find is a direct connection to the advertizing/marketing consultants of Madison Avenue.
Their knowledge only goes as far as the colorful brochure, if that.None, I say again, NONE of these (pardon the expression) salesmen have this gear in their homes, and they wouldn't dream of trying to install/hook it up themselves. They know better. There's probably only three people in the world who know how to dial in an HDTV antenna, cable and ground it properly, figure out the best way to wire the DVD, VCR, Satellite, preamps, monitor, video processor, amps and speakers with the video in such a way that you can get by with only 65 remotes, and two of them never leave Japan.
I've been to every audio/video store within 2 hours drive of my house and not a single one has a single person who knows more about audio and video than I do, and I don't know shit.
Need any more proof? OK, check out the inputs on the Panasonic TH42PWD4: there are two High Definition inputs: RGB/component on BNC, and the 15pin sub D.
Now, check out the Panasonic TU-HD20S HDTV satellite receiver: it outputs component video on **** RCA JACKS **** and doesn't even have the sub d output. WHICH MEANS PANASONIC'S HDTV SATELLITE RECEIVER/DECODER IS INCOMPATABLE WITH PANASONIC'S BEST TELEVISIONS!!!!!
No wonder everyone in the asylum is insane.
How's it look?
Rod, you know me...I'd been researching a new TV for years, but when it came right down to it, I never could justify it because, seriously, there's nothing to watch. All the best films are black and white and 4:3, and with very few exceptions (count on one hand) there's absolutely nothing to see in regular programing--there's no there there.To make matters worse, is there anything out there to rent DVDs besides Netflix? Cheeze 'n Rice they suck! I've yet to rent a disk from them that hasn't been used as a cutting board or ballast under a spining tyre on a stuck truck! I have a que with ~50 films and haven't received one in months! What are they doing, making the films themselves? Oh you can get "Freddy got Fingered" delivered from the Left coast in 3 hours, but try and get one of the classics, and forget Foreign films entirely!
Like "Breaking the waves"...it's a horrible transfer--even worse than VHS, but that's not the rub...scene 25, the critical point of the film--the bit that the entire story turns on--is so butchered that only one pixel out of every 10,000 gets displayed! And that's the only chapter that does this! I have to believe the Christian Right is behind it....oh, the horror of censorship!
but I digress...
so anyway I'm researching plasmas on the internet, and at one point I walk away from the computer to refil my glass and the wife goes in to take a call from work (looks like her client is pulling an Enron...the horror...have you seen how far the stock has fallen from the high 12 months ago?...that's just the tip of the iceburg, but you didn't hear that from me)....when I come back there's a post-it note on the screen, right on top of the 50" Panasonic HDTV plasma--the state of the art in High Definition display:
"No $20,000 televisions!"
Well.
That really ticked me off. So I began looking at the Vidikron Vision One X (mil spec components, unlimited options...retails like a Lamborginni Diablo), even though there's no way they would fit inside the house.
So I ordered the 42", and put it on her credit card (since I don't have a job, I can't get my own credit card...I have to buy everything with cash...like the Volvo...you should have seen the guy's face when I pulled out a brown paper bag with all those $20s...I don't look like a dope dealer...I bet he shit his pants trying to decide how to take all that cash to the night deposit box...but I digress,,,)
Anyway the thing arrived the day after I ordered it (an Italian delivered it. I know this because I saw his truck down the street at house number 2, knocking on the door. My house is number 11. You figure it out. He couldn't. Or maybe it's not Roman numerals, maybe he's just demonstrating he can do arithmatic, something our president is learning...I hope). But the mounting bracket and component cables still haven't arrived, so I just uncrated the screen and leaned it up against the sofa.
Just then the phone rang. It was an old friend from my hang gliding days, who knows (the real) me all too well. He says we're going to the auto show next Wednesday with Kurt, who did two semesters at the University of South Vietnam in a river patrol boat exactly like the one in Apocalypse Now (now he designs toys...in New Jersey...the horror...) to look at the Boxter S, sit in the Lambo (assuming I'm capable of lying on the floor and rolling into it, as I've lost the ability to "hunker down" and gain entry in such a vehicle with any kind of dignity), and drink way too much Extra Stout while we lie about "the good ol' days" and hustle pool at the Dock Street brew pub (for some reason the yuppies who hang there are even worse at pool than I am, which is incredable, but nevertheless, profitable. I told him of my moment of weakness and he laughed and laughed...he knows the wife too, and like me, he's afraid of her...very afraid. Then he stopped laughing. Then he started laughing again...and would not stop. Like me, he believes that the only reason to have friends is you can abuse them mercylessly without the risk of bodily harm.
His great sin is that he once owned a Jaguar XKE convertable in British racing green with tan leather...and sold it.
He's gonna burn in Hell for an eternity (as if he's not suffering now).
But this guy is brilliant, and he had the answer. The wife has no idea that just one run of "good" speaker cable costs more than her Lexus, but somehow she knows that these plasma things are way too expensive for someone like us (Quakers...we're supposed to be just plain folk, but for some unfathomable reason i"m having trouble with that part--might be all the money we "made" trading equities during the Clinton administration, but who can say?). Then again, she thinks nothing of giving a fortune to some "charity"...like the new home for the Philadelphia Orchestra (Named fittingly after some Fortune 500 company, like the Enron Center or something...I suppose naming it after a musician or the Native American tribe the Quakers murdered so Bill Penn could take the land to build the "City of Brotherly Love and conceiled carry" didn't occur to them, but I digress...it really is awesome--the very best concert hall in the world, and no, I don't need to hear them all to know that, and yes, Elton John still has his chops). so my friend had the answer: put on a dvd and find a nice bit of film with a landscape shot and press pause. With the plasma mounted on the wall she'd think it was just a picture--nothing wrong with expensive art!
Do you think men would have ever learned lying and deception had it not been for the invention of wives?
When the wife came home and saw it leaning against the sofa she put on her game face and said, "...husband..." in that accusatory way only wifes can inflect...but then an astonishing thing happened: she melted: "oh that's nice!"
That's how beautiful it is. The thing is so awesome it looks like art just leaning against something...not connected--with a blank screen. It looks like -- the future.
Actually, that's not entirely true. The truth is, she'd been working late, and whatever crimes her client had confessed to that day were so horrific that even faced the material evidence that I'd not only lied to her, cheated her, deceived her, embezzeled funds from her account, and defied her righteous admonition to shun the material world of "toys", it was insignificant by comparison to what she does for a living.
The thought sort of...took the fun out of the moment, but a few hours playing with the kids and we got over it. She told me she may not have a job on Monday, but the chances of her going to prison for a long time are nearly zero. Nearly zero.
I'm still waiting for the mounting bracket and the cables. The order guy said something about a foot of snow at the Atlanta airport (what a crock! everybody knows it never snows in Atlanta!)...there's no snow here...and we've had less rain this past year than Death Valley...go figure. The Jews are moving back to New York and Philadelphia to get out of the Florida snow!
anyway...I have this bit of modern art leaning against the wall.
it is the most beautiful non-living thing in the house.
you have to love technology, when it looks like that...
it truely is the most beautiful thing...breathtaking.
I'll post again if the hook-up cable ever arrives, and Netflix ever finds a readable copy of "Jean de Florettes".
Petew: Hits home. The wife says (to me) "buy what you wish..you work for it...I don't." Unfortunately guilt and ambivelance weigh in. then finishing what I start stops me cold. I too envision a large rectangular object (that looks good) but unconnected to flowing electrons.
Hey...I'll just get the Sony 27fs13 (yeah "just"..after months of thought) and call it a very long day
Tom
.
nt
.
thankswe love you Rod
every one of us
Now I know exactly how to sneak on in the house. It ought to be just the right size to cover this window right in the middle of the family room. I'll just take a video of the patio outside and put it on pause.Then when she's away, I just pull up the blinds.....perfect!
You're welcome. I guess it was big enough for you and the kids all at once!
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
