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I'm brand new to Home Theater having just purchased a DVD player to use with a fairly high quality stereo system from the mid 80s.My problem is that during loud passages on some movies I'm having a very hard time following the dialouge, and it doesn't seem to matter what volume I set my preamp at, the voices still get drowned out. For example, I rented "The Perfect Storm," and I still have no idea what they were saying on the boat while the storm and waves were crashing all around.
Otherwise, I'm very happy with the sound quality of my system (especially my vintage Acoustic Research loudspeakers) and I have no desire to spend thousands on new "surround sound" equipment.
I've researched all the previous posts on this site and I'm wondering if a "phantom" center channel might help my situation.
QUESTIONS: If I bought a modern HT preamp only, could I use the Dolby Pro Logic or DTS 5.1 mode with my existing 2 channel system and take advantage of the phantom center channel feature? Would this improve my ability to discern dialog? Is there a way to do this without loosing the information that would normally be directed to the rear channels?
Thanks for your help,
Brian
Follow Ups:
Brian,You have more choices than you are being led to believe. For starters go into your DVD players setup and choose the PCM stereo soundtrack. There is no DVD without a PCM soundtrack as one of the options. It is very rare (although it happens) that the uncompressed PCM stereo sountrack won't be superior to the multichannel DD/DTS.
If you don't like this improvement enough then the next step up could be a nice DAC if your DVD player has a digital out.
If understood and done right the low to mid budget HT will sound much better in stereo (uncompressed PCM). It's simple math. Dividing your budget by two gets you better quality per channel than dividing by 5,6,or even 7. IMOKen
Thanks Ken,But it's already too late. I've just ordered an HT amp and preamp on EBay. I bought a Harman Kardon Signature 2.0 preamp, and a Harman Kardon Signature 2.1 power amp, both factory refurbished with manufacturer's warrentees. The preamp was $365 and the amp was $560. Now all I need is a center channel speaker, and I'm getting set on the AR 4C for $150. I'm hoping it'll match up well with my AR 98LSis. So I'll be out a bit over $1,000, but I'll have a lot of options to address my DVD sound quality issue, and I think the quality of the HK components will be decent enough to provide good quality stereo sound.
Thanks for your input,
Brian
Brian,First of all, I really like HK. I have a HK receiver from the early 80's that can still rock the house. The equipment you're getting in particular is also nice looking.
The AR speaker line is well reviewed too so I think you'll be very happy - for awhile anyway :). Still, play around with selecting the PCM track on some DVD's and see how you like it compared to the DD/DTS. You might just like it.
Ken
I don't think adding a HT preamp & still using it in 2 channel mode will help anything. Your problem is probably from the downmix from 5.1 channels to 2 channels; the sound is just becoming a cacophony.AFAIK, the "phantom" mode you refer to is simply folding the center channel into the L/R front channels; it's not really changing anything from what you're already doing. The only thing it might do is remove/throw away the rear channel info that may be fogging up the sound, but that might end up being a pretty odd sound mix.
Do you have the same problem with Dolby Pro Logic mixes, or is it mainly the discreet mixes-DD5.1 and DTS? If it's only the DD/DTS stuff, many DVDs have an alternate 2.0 channel mix that may decode cleaner in stereo mode.
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks Kevin,I think you're characterization of the problem is correct. But I think you misunderstood where I'm coming from.
Right now, I am running the 2 ch. analog output of my DVD into an old Yamaha preamp, not the 5.1 output. I'm hoping there may be a way to get a cleaner 2 ch. sound If I did use the DTS ouput, but of course I would have to buy a new preamp.
Brian
The DVD player downmixes the 5.1 multichannel mix to 2 channels, therefore all 5 channels are dumped into a stereo mix. I've heard downmixing many times, and it can vary from very good to awful. Even this resulting mix is intended to be decoded by a DPL (Dolby Pro Logic) decoder, so it's really not meant to be played w/o center & rear channels.Often times, the channel balances on the downmix are all over the place; you could have the center mix buried below the rear/surround mix, etc. It's just the way backwards compatabilty was covered...
I think it's just a problem that you're going to have to deal with, if you're not willing to do multichannel for theater playback. I have separate music/theater systems, as I found I never could get a theater setup that did music to my satisfaction...and vise versa.
Regards,
Kevin
Kevin,Thanks again for your input. Your giving me serious reason to consider going to multi-channel.
What your saying about good 2 ch. mix vs. bad 2 ch. mix makes sense. It would explain why some movies seem OK on my system, and some are incomprehensible.
So my next question is; if I go to surround sound, will the quality of the sound track be more consistent, or will I still have the same problem of losing the voices? Or to put it another way, is it just as likely that a video will have a bad 5 channel mix, or is it just sloppiness on the downmix to 2 channel that causes the spotty quality?
Thanks,
Brian
Generally speaking, a 5.1 setup will eliminate or at least reduce your problems. Now, that's not to say you won't still have the occasional action flick where the dialog is just buried in the mix- it does happen.Having 4 channels roaring with special effects and dialog coming out the center channel can still be hard to make out at times, but at least then you're receiving the dialog from a point source. And many betters receivers/procs have a "dialog enhancer" mode to combat that very issue (don't like them myself, but they are an option).
Regards,
Kevin
Brian,The analog 2-channel output from your DVD player is already a digital 5.1 to analog 2-channel downmix handled by the DVD player itself.
You probably won't be able to improve on the dialog issue until you get a DD/DTS processor and a center channel. Sorry to break the news, that's just the way it is.
If your speakers can't handle the dialog in the current 2-channel DVD player situation, it's not likely they will do any better with a DD/DTS processor and a "phantom" center option (no center speaker).
You can certainly try the "phantom" center option though, as there are many low cost receivers you could use as a prepro (not use the receivers amps, but use it as a preamp). My guess is you will need a center channel with the current L&R speakers you have now.
Thanks Bstan,Based on the foregoing discussion I think you're correct. I think I can sell my Yamaha separates on ebay for $300 or $400. I like the Harman Kardon Signature HT equipment which I think I can get on ebay for about $900 or $1,000 for the pair. Add an AR center channel speaker for about $100 (again on ebay), and I think I'll be able to make the transistion to HT for well under $1,000.
Thanks for your expertise,
Brian
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