You misunderstand my position

Posted by Troy (A) on January 18, 2004 at 09:46:06

In Reply to: Well, Troy, posted by tinear on January 17, 2004 at 17:46:28:

television movies exactly are what you describe. Now, films? I'd have to disagree. But, by your definition of "sugar-coating" and "cosmetic," I think you are expecting a film to be a documentary.

No no no! I WANT films to have this artistic quality!

First off, a film is (or attempts to be, at least the ones we're interested in for this conversation) art. That means an "artist" interprets reality, placing his stamp on it. Would you criticize a Puccini aria, sung by Callas' character who has just lost her lover, as unrealistic? After all, no one in recorded history naturally has burst into a lenghty, sad, rhythmic song---spontaneously!

Again, I'm not criticizing, in fact my point is that Patrick was under the impression that film, for it to be good, cannot be "cosmeticized and sugar coated" (his words) and I was pointing out that the existence of the medium alone, causes this artistic artifice. However good her performance is, all opera is completely coated in artifice.

The key is whether the characters acting within the "artificial" world created by the director act BELIEVABLY---that is, whether the interior logic holds true.

Yes, that and if the artifice of the rest of the film-makers art doesn't go too far as well. Too much camera movement, every shot done in magic hour etc. But make no mistake, ALL acting and film making is artifice and is cosmetic and sugar coated by it's very nature.

You seem to feel some movies portray life as unrealistically pleasant: How would you describe "The Bicycle Thief," or "Schindler's List?" "Unforgiven?" "Psycho?"

Again, it's a question of semantics. I can point out individual scenes and shots in all those movies designed as either comic or visually beautiful esthetic relief. Intentional sugar coating designed to make the audience relax and let down their guard for the next big shock. That's what I'm talking about.

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Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Are all movies inherently cosmetic and sugar coated? - Troy 09:16:17 01/16/04 (29)

Film (American)is in the realm of a toss between PIN BALL AMUSEMENT and PRO WRESTLING! - j.l.guillebeau@att.net 09:41:59 01/22/04 (0)

Would Pink Flamingos qualify as an exception? - J 22:24:52 01/19/04 (6)

Not really - Troy 07:35:46 01/20/04 (4)

You can't have it both ways - J 13:17:29 01/20/04 (3)

I'm not having it both ways - Troy 08:08:18 01/21/04 (2)

There are probably websites where you can do that sort of thing - J 12:12:16 01/21/04 (1)

I enjoy debating with you. - Troy 12:42:42 01/21/04 (0)

The Problem With Pink Flamingos Is . . . - Bob K 03:34:43 01/20/04 (0)

Well, Troy, - tinear 17:46:28 01/17/04 (3)

You misunderstand my position - Troy 09:46:06 01/18/04 (2)

Well, at this point of watering down your position, couldn't you say - tinear 07:54:43 01/19/04 (1)

I don't think I watered it down at all! - Troy 09:00:15 01/19/04 (0)

I think your confusing - mvwine 07:59:42 01/17/04 (4)

Re: I think the whole thing is confusing - Troy 09:54:39 01/18/04 (0)

Re: I think your confusing - patrickU 09:38:30 01/17/04 (2)

Yes, the whole international trend is discouraging - mvwine 19:10:09 01/18/04 (1)

Re: Yes, the whole international trend is discouraging - patrickU 02:07:04 01/19/04 (0)

No... - Victor Khomenko 14:16:28 01/16/04 (5)

Yes - Troy 09:23:01 01/18/04 (0)

Re: No... - patrickU 07:45:51 01/17/04 (3)

Re: No... - Victor Khomenko 10:08:32 01/17/04 (2)

Maybe . . . - Troy 09:28:41 01/18/04 (0)

Re: No... - patrickU 10:19:57 01/17/04 (0)

Have a look at "Kids" (1995), and then come back here and talk about sugarcoating... - orejones 12:28:23 01/16/04 (1)

That was a "rough" film to watch for sure! Didn't do NYC any favors. -n - albee33 18:13:56 01/16/04 (0)

Maybe not "cosmetic and sugar coated", but... - vocalion 09:55:21 01/16/04 (3)

Yes... that is far more like it - Victor Khomenko 10:39:40 01/16/04 (1)

Re: Lumiere and Co. - rico 05:14:12 01/18/04 (0)

Re: Maybe not "cosmetic and sugar coated", but... - patrickU 10:30:05 01/16/04 (0)

Follow Ups

You misunderstand my position - Troy 09:46:06 01/18/04 (2)

Well, at this point of watering down your position, couldn't you say - tinear 07:54:43 01/19/04 (1)

I don't think I watered it down at all! - Troy 09:00:15 01/19/04 (0)

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