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In Reply to: RE: Sicko...Moore's best film... posted by RGA on July 12, 2007 at 16:40:50
he picked a topic soooo worthy of examination and he even makes very legitimate assertions. but he then goes on to use a series of manipulative anecdotes and a few ridiculous stunts to make a piece of propaganda. he could have been completely honest and unamnipulaitivr and made as compelling an argument that health care in the U.S. is broken. I suppose such an approach wouldn't have been as entertaining but it is supposed to be a documentary.
Follow Ups:
Well Moore is more of a mocumentary film maker. Indeed, a true documentary would be more informative and deeper but then Documentaries are seen by 50 people. SO the point becomes do you want to have a film with lots of facts and in depth reports that nobody will see, or do you want to get to the heart of the matter - the big key element and speak to a large portion of the population. This is the difference between history books and popular historical books.
A large contingent of republicans are liking this movie as well. And I suspect the vast majority of Republicans might view Fahrenheit in a new light. Moore is not perfect by any means but I always find it odd that if someone presents people with say 10 fact and one is suspect that that allows for the other 9 to be deemed wrong out of hand.
Moore hires a team of fact checkers and I doubt he is going to run into any real issues with this film. The big attack is that "those other countries pay higher taxes" but Moore also says this. The fact is if you are in the top 10% of American incomes a socialized medical system will COST THOSE PEOPLE more money. So the multi millionaires and billionaires are going to have to pony up more cash.
Frankly, the top 10% will either eventually do it or the bottom 50% are going to lynch them and take it while the middle sits and does nothing - as usual.
But in this case, I think the meat of the subject is so compelling that a deeper look into the problem IMO would actually be more compelling than Moore's antics.
> > Moore is not perfect by any means but I always find it odd that if someone presents people with say 10 fact and one is suspect that that allows for the other 9 to be deemed wrong out of hand.
That is not my problem with this movie. you don't see me calling Moore a lyar. He is at his best wehn presenting facts in this movie. My complaint is the anecdotes as evidence and ridiculous pranks he pulls. Taking a boat to Cuba and asking for medical care over a megaphone was nothing other than a cheap stunt that demonstrated nothiong but moore's idea of irony. It was a waste of film and resources to make the film. The round table discussion in Paris was just plain stupid. That's the crap I hate in this movie.
> > Moore hires a team of fact checkers and I doubt he is going to run into any real issues with this film. The big attack is that "those other countries pay higher taxes" but Moore also says this. The fact is if you are in the top 10% of American incomes a socialized medical system will COST THOSE PEOPLE more money. So the multi millionaires and billionaires are going to have to pony up more cash.
Well now *you* are dealing with some *real* issues here. You see, I am on your side and Moore's side here. This is the stuff that should have been covered more. That is what frustrates me. There was sooo much material he could have used that wasn't anecdotal or prankish that could have been quite compelling if presented skillfully. And he does have those skills as a film maker. he didn't even go into the fact that one of the most dangerous places on earth is an American hospital and that 200,000 people die each year as a result of medical mal-practice or neglegence. Here in L.A. Kaiser is currently dumping patients in need of urgent care down on skid row in the middle of the night by taxi cab because they don't have a policy with them. To me that is a hell of a lot more compelling than Moore's punk pranks in Cuba or his round table in Paris. Some times substance is more meaty than style. This would be a classic case.
"Taking a boat to Cuba and asking for medical care over a megaphone was nothing other than a cheap stunt that demonstrated nothing but Moore's idea of irony"
On CNN he called it satire - he knows full well he is not going to be allowed in. Sure it's a stunt - it's satirical humour - whether all will find it funny or not is another matter.
"The round table discussion in Paris was just plain stupid. That's the crap I hate in this movie."
That is a form of storytelling within his mocumentary. How do the Americans living in France feel about their health care. First hand.
The issue is that he is using anecdotal stories with facts. I found the laundry bit hilarious.
"To me that is a hell of a lot more compelling than Moore's punk pranks in Cuba or his round table in Paris. Some times substance is more meaty than style. This would be a classic case."
Sounds to me you wanted him to make a movie about a different subject than looking at what he did make. He is not making a film about hospitals and how they're run he made a film about the insane idea of profit over medicine. He shows the results of that with LA Kaiser. There is no program because such a program is not profitable.
Cuba and Paris is to show viewers what it is like in other countries with satire. His films are not documentaries they are mocumentaries and he puts in those mock scenes. Compared to his other films this film has ONE under 3 minute scene on the horn, and the round table scene was a conversation which was also under 5 minutes.
I mean if people want "just the fact" then why even go to a movie? You can read a book. This is film for entertainment and education aimed at the masses and condenses the facts into an acceptable running time. Moore could have put tons more into this but it would have a 55hour running time.
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