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In Reply to: Re: This is NOT about intelligence posted by Joe S on July 9, 2000 at 09:16:55:
***Actually its about naive adults who take 9 year olds to R rated movies. I always wondered who those folks were. Now I know. My parents sure didnt do it.Criticism well placed, agreed. At first I missed that it was an R-rated flick.
***And Victor, while I can relate to what you say to some degree mass media entertainment has never been about quality. It been about entertaining the masses.
So I don't get any credit for knowing this? No proble so far.
***Using is as a barometer of societal health is a bit of a reach.And here IS a problem, Joe.
The point is that we are not talking abot quality of that entertainment, but its offensive value. The way I see it, the degree of that offensive shock is only getting higher and higher, and you will not convince me that we had all this in the fifties. True, I was not here, and you got the head start on me, but my impression is that it was perhaps at times corny, poor quality, naive and in poor taste, but we can't compare it to the current river of decayed matter. I think we all know that the movie producers have been pushing the envelop since the beginning, and they really now have only few things uncovered.
***The US has NEVER been a country in with the majority of filmgoers would have sat through (never mind enjoyed) a screening of the films you typically enjoy.That is unfortunate enough in itself, but on top of that we are the major source and trend setter in the offensiveness department. Not only have we failed to build a robust and healthy movie culture here, at home, we have also done our best to destroy the cultures of many other countries. They all to large degree have succumbed to the relentless pressure and cheap temptation - ala the McDonald penetration. And this is not just the American fault - the French, the Italians, the Germans, etc hold as much respolsibility for allowing the bad things happen to THEIR movie cultures as well. They complain too much and do too little.
***I know its popular for some to look over hollywoods history and name good films of the past and decry the drop in quality its worth remembering that that library of exceptions is culled from a population of thousands of ordinary or worse movies accumulated over the better part of a century.
Again, Joe, it is NOT the quality that I am talking about, but the shifted focus towards the shock. And while in the art area you can keep expanding forever, the shock thingy is limited. At some point you simply start recycling the old junk.
***And never mind the pre code days in which sex / drugs and moral ambiguity were a staple, or the post code exploitation flicks. This movie has always been out there and there has always been an audience for it. Sweeping it under the rug doesnt make that magically disappear nor does using it as an object lesson in social decay makes any sense.I don't doubt it was always there to some degree, but there is large difference between existing on the fringes of the society and being actively pushed, promoted in the most "mass of the mass" media. You can't deny that the trash like the teen movies was not there with all the morons and idiots being presented as "nice lovable slightly inti-social rebels". I don't think there was a phenomenon like that king of morons, John Belushi (sp under time pressure) and those who keep copying him.
***I suspect what really drives the frustration with this movie is the violation of a traditional US film taboo - showing the penis or a representation of it. There is something about male frontal nudity that seems to define a rather ridiculous US moral standard which permits female nudity in movies yet reactions of moral outrage if a male is involved.
We are mixing things here. The naive and ridiculus reactions come from ALL angles, and the fact they exist doesn't take from the fact that they are largely justified. You are simply talking about the arbitraty line, and no matter how you draw it it will not look right, that's given. And I don't share your concern about the male nudity - it has been used without bad effects for a long time and by the British, of all people.
***Both this movie and the new Jim Carrie movieOh, please, don't even mention THAT name in relation to the movies...
***(in this case in the form of a dildo)
You are right, he IS one large dildo.
***have crossed this rather parochial US barrier and have gotten slammed for it.It is not the mere existence, it is what you do with it. The Clockwork Orange used the dildo before.
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Follow Ups
- Re: This is NOT about intelligence - Victor Khomenko 05:48:14 07/10/00 (5)
- So you're not the worlds biggest.... - Joe S 07:03:36 07/10/00 (4)
- Ah, but... - Victor Khomenko 07:55:37 07/10/00 (3)
- True to an extent... - Joe S 08:41:39 07/10/00 (2)
- Why is cable bundled? - Shane 12:49:17 07/10/00 (1)
- Not that way - Victor Khomenko 12:57:59 07/10/00 (0)
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