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In Reply to: Re: Das Boot. posted by Victor Khomenko on August 6, 2000 at 15:04:01:
Unwittingly, I have started this long thread. To recap: we got here because I argued that DB was not an apology for the Nazi regime; and that what it showed was not at variance with other accounts of the submarine war in the Atlantic.
Responding to a couple of points.First, the fact that the Germans' motivation or purpose for WWII was especially evil is, in my view, not useful in judging their military units' conduct. I do not think it would be ok for American sub crews to shoot Japanese survivors in lifeboats just because the Americans were fighting for "truth, justice and the American Way." Conversely, I don't think it is evil for U-Boat crews to concentrate their efforts on North Atlantic shipping lanes to sink ships supplying Great Britain or the USSR because the Nazis were fighting for world domination. At the general staff level, where such plans were formulated and carried out, yes there should be responsibility for pursuing an unjust cause. But at the operational unit level, no I don't see culpability for the cause that these units served.
Second, a post-hoc judgment of combatants' behavior is an extraordinarily perilous undertaking (unless, of course, you measure the behavior by the yardstick of the cause for which the combatants fought). I had intended to classify as clearly "bad," violence intentionally (not incidentally) directed at non-combatants, whether civilans or prisoners-of-war. Victor, your mention of the Katyan Woods (sp?) massacre of the Polish officer corps identified a significant omission in my account. I stand corrected.
Incidental violence against civilians is a tough yardstick to use. Both sides get caught up in that net. Yes, the German air campaign, especially the use of "guided" missles against Britain was nothing but a terror campaign. But what was the military justification for the allied firebombing of Dresden -- that Germans lived there? Same question for the firebombing of Tokyo and other Japanese cities? The use of the atomic bomb on Nagasaki? Yes, the U-Boats torpedoed or shot every allied vessel they could find in the North Atlantic. But the US waged a comparable -- and ultimately more successful -- submarine war against Japan with similar tactics.
Third, I do not see the U-Boats -- or any other military units -- as "samurai" fighting the "honorable fight" etc. In fact, I have serious doubts that the samurai themselves were the "honorable warriors" that they have become in legend and literature. Obviously, it serves the purposes of those who tell their stories to make them so.
Rather, I see the U-Boats as small, increasingly isolated military units with very few choices. That is the picture given by DB, and I do not find it inaccurate. If it makes any difference, both US and German sub crews suffered the highest casualty ratios in their countries' respective armed forces.
RBB --
"Still getting the wax out of my ears."
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Follow Ups
- Victor; Dmitry - Bruce from DC 08:12:28 08/07/00 (1)
- Re: Victor; Dmitry - Victor Khomenko 09:06:17 08/07/00 (0)
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