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I did...

Posted by jamesgarvin (A) on May 18, 2006 at 09:01:05

In Reply to: Re-read the thread. posted by Victor Khomenko on May 17, 2006 at 15:18:41:

"If you like him - defend him, but not by attacking those who don't."

Victor, you need to re-read the discourse. Since you seem to have difficulty doing so, I'll cut and paste so you not have to do too much work. Here goes:

(1) Townsend writes: IMHO, Schindler's List is one of his best movies ever. Unfortunately, the public has been oversaturated with holocaust books, movies, history channel specials, etc. This situation has created "holocaust" fatigue among viewers. But Schindler's List is the best holocaust movie I've seen. Its Fiennes' best performance, and Neeson is also brilliant (Kingsley does a fine job, but his character isn't as prominent as the other two aforementioned).

Me: Not a single mention of SPR. You see it anywhere Victor.
If you do, put down the Vodka, you have had too much.

(2) Victor replies: Like in his other fims, he simply reaches for the most trivial "shocking" effects in his tool box, things we hate him for, and rightly so, things he elevated to the unfortunate "cult" status with his ridiculous SPR.

Of course one can treat the subject that way, and perhaps this is what some need. But one can also express the horrors in a much more subtle, but more grabbing ways. Spielberg is unable to do any of that.

Me: You bring up SPR, which was never mentioned. The original film discussed was SL. You write "like in his other films", certainly implying you recognized this to be the case. You wrote that in SL Speilberg "reaches for the most trivial special effects." You then add "one can also express the horrors is a much more subtle way."

Me again: I assumed that you knew what you were writing about, and had some specific ideas in mind, or at least some concrete examples.

(3) I replied asking you to provide some concrete examples. Seems simple enough.

(4) Victor replies: Just two polar examples. The "horror" landing scene in SPR does absolutely nothing to me, but that open door leading to the empty starecase in the M is gripping.

Me: Great. But SL is the film that began the thread. And your statement that "like in his other films" clearly denotes that SL, according to you, contained trivial shocking effects, and trearing horrors in more subtle ways. You make a statement which, when asked to support, you bail and change the subject. Which leads to the conclusion that that emperor has no clothes.

You then suggest that I re-read the thread. Then suggest that rather than "attack" you, I should defend Speilberg. You are the one who suggeste SL could have, and has been done, better. That Speilberg resorted to trivial effects. You have failed to support your argument beyond "I think." If I challenge you to support your statements which you cloak as fact, that is hardly a personal attack.

(5) Scott posts: don't recall any "trivial 'shocking' effects" in SL. What exactly are you refering to? Certainly there were shocking scenes but they were shocking in their excellent representation of the real horrors of the holocaust. can't say that I saw anything cheap and manipulative in this one.

Examples? I can't say that I recall any movies on the holocaust that had moments that were more grabbing than the ones in SL. But if you can offe some examples it would be interesting to see your points illustrated.

Me: Still waiting.

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