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In Reply to: Why is Plasma better??? posted by ICI on May 20, 2002 at 15:31:56:
I've also been looking into plasmas. Overall, I think they offer the best picture. But, the models I like, like the 50" top of the line Fujitsu or the Pioneer Elite are very expensive. Even with these models, I find some problems with the image. First, I think the black level is adequate, a far cry from the earliest plasmas. But, in order to get that deep black and avoid a washed out look, it appears to me that a lot of shaddow detail is lost. Images in the darker part of a picture are turned to black. This is particularly noticeable on the Pioneer Elite. While I like the density of the images, vs. the almost ghostly quality of RPTV, sometimes the image has an odd, unnatural texture.Someone below mentioned the Sony Wega LCD RPTV. I liked the detail of that image, but the black level and low contrast image makes the set totally unacceptable for any low light images where everything appears to be awash in a light mist.
At a dealership with a small room, I notice that the plasma put out a lot of heat. Does anyone know if it puts out more or less heat than a comparable RPTV or a LCD front or rear projection set? My other concern with plasma sets is image burn-in since I watch a lot of 4:3 programming and I hate stretched images. If an RPTV suffers burn-in, the replacement of the CRTs would be expensive, but far less than the complete replacement of a plasma set.
Follow Ups:
I agree that Pioneer and Fujitsu (and Hitachi and Sony ) still have a ways to go with their plasma technology. I saw a Runco 60" that approaches the Panasonics (ok, it was great, but also three times the cost!) in picture quality, but i happen to know that all the sets in that store were re-calibrated and set-up properly and not just whatever the factory sent out. The difference between what this retailer has on display and everything else I've seen was enlightening. If you're lucky, you get what you pay for.That being said, it's likely that ALL of the video technologies you have seen suffer from either or most likely both of these afflictions:
bad signal
not calibratedOh, and while we're on the subject of "video standard", have you considered this??
"go right to the source and ask the horse..." -- Mister Ed.
EVERY HIGH DEFINITION VIDEO CAMERA HAS TO BE CALIBRATED, AND SINCE THIS IS ALL NEW TO EVERYBODY, EVERY SINGLE CAMERA IS SET-UP A BIT DIFFERENT FROM ALL THE REST, NOT ONLY AMONG EACH NETWORK STUDIO, BUT EACH CAMERA IN EACH STUDIO. THEREFORE: THERE IS NO VIDEO STANDARD.
This didn't matter much with the old color TV cameras, because the NTSC standard was rarely what you got on your set at home, and even then, the resolution of your set after all the attenuations all along the signal path was a far cry from what the engineers saw on their studio monitors...(wait till you see the NTSC standard reproduced on your new plasma! you won't believe how good the digital feed of the 6pm LIVE ACTION NEWS looks!)
with digital HDTV, you don't get any slack: what you see is what you get. period.
Have you ever listened to the orgional Stereophile Test Disk? If you haven't I strongly recommend you go to http://www.stereophile.com and order it immediately. Listen to H. Gordon Holt's seminal "Why audio reviewers can't agree". He reads his editorial into a dozen or so microphones, and even a stone can tell when he's switched from one mike to another. Ergo: THERE IS NO AUDIO STANDARD, EITHER!!
I spent several hours chatting with the video tech at a high-end audio store. He says you need about $50,000 worth of gear to properly set-up a video system, and that anyone who thinks they have a "plug and play" HDTV system is fooling themselves. If you buy from a dealer some of the mark-up should go to pay for the video tech to come out to your house and set-up the set for your viewing conditions. Or, you can just find a certified guy and spend a few bucks for the peace of mind--considering the investment...makes sense. After a while of lying and bullshitting he let loose with some of the things he has to do to "normalise" the pictures. My set is "commercial" (not for the consumer market) and so i'm able to get into the set-up programs usually only accessable to the video techs. This is a terrible thing---I have the power to totally fuck-up my set beyond all redemption...
the horror...
(but it's good horror)The problem is that the average customer goes into the store and picks a video monitor/technology based on what "looks best". But like the novice audiophile--he picks the one with the most bass bloom and skreechie highs, and when he gets it home it drives him right out of the room.
You have to teach yourself how to be a videophile--and the process is long and requires study and work and hanging around websites reading crap like what I'm dishing out now.
Before you spend ten large on a 50" plasma, you'd best educate youself on what you are looking at and how that differs from any kind of "video standard".
It's much easier to shop for a good pair of speakers because we've all heard what a piano sounds like.
What's suprising is that we don't really seem to know what "real life" looks like--judging from what the typical video retailer is trying to push on us everybody is radioactively glowing with white levels boosted to super-nova intensities...
and how many times have you been in a TV studio to watch them broadcast the evening news or "Saturday Night Live"? believe me, with the amount of lights they use in those "live" studios, you'd be glowing as if you were radioactive too! It's not natural. What you need to do is learn to see.
Have you ever eaten poisonous mushrooms?
That's what I'm talking about. If you see HDTV signals on a plasma and it looks like an acid flashback (your mind knows it can't be real but your body is either running away in horror or trying to fuck it)...it's properly calibrated for your room. The colors are that real, and yes, it's supposed to look like Alice will pop through that picture screen at any moment...following a white rabbit.
the horror...oh, and let's not hear any more of this talk about "dead pixells" and "burn-out" or "burn-in".
dead pixells is a dead issue. if you hear someone say "dead pixells in a plasma" run away.
burn-in/out is an issue. it's an issue with CRT's too. Remember the video game "PONG"? Lots of conventional TVs have PONG permanently burnt-into the screen--it's not just a thing with plasma.
and the networks are doing what they can to agravate the problem by burning their logos into the lower right corner of your screen. why don't you write the FCC to complain? Hey, if you know someone who can write software to remove the network logos from the feed signal you'd make BILLION$!
the plasmas have built-in doublers/scalers so you don't have to watch 4:3 aspect ratio TV unless you want to. The set will automatically rescale the picture to fill the entire screen. Yes this does cause image distortion because the side image is "stretched" (like a fun-house mirror) to fill-in the gaps, but it's not as bad as you might think--mostly unnoticable, and actually quite comical in many instances. You get used to it, and after a while you won't watch 4:3 television under any circumstances.
yes i've felt the heat that some brands of plasma put out, and i wouldn't live with that.
my 42" plasma has a lower heat output than the 27" Proscan CRT it replaced. i haven't noticed it at all--perhaps because it's mounted on the wall with nothing near it so the room air flows in the bottom vents and out the top (i've never hear the cooling fan come on) along the wall right to the ceiling...anyway there's just not that much heat to begin with. Compared to the amount of heat put out by the Sony HD100 (the cooling fan runs even when it's in stand-by) and the Denon AVR-5803 (sorta like a space-heater, only hotter) the plasma screen is a virtual ice box.
Pixel burn-out seems to be a big concern. I suppose if you leave the white balance at twenty times more intense than "normal" you might experience burn=out after 30,000 hours. or you can just run the automatic screen saver program when not viewing...i know, your dealer doesn't know about this--that's why i'm telling you to educate youself. You already know more about plasma & HDTV than 99% of the people who sell them.
but people need something to worry about...
have you ever thought that terrorists might have filled the trunk of your car with high explosives?
better check.
but i digress...don't get me started.
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