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Re: Chivalrious muderers and petty pucky sentimentalism

64.20.78.117

Posted by Dmitry on August 6, 2000 at 00:48:19

In Reply to: Re: Chivalrious muderers and petty pucky sentimentalism posted by Victor Khomenko on August 5, 2000 at 14:35:36:

*Your number I suspect is an extrapolation of the Paulus army story - if I remember correctly some 5000 to 10000 made it out of about 300,000. That was very early in the war and things changed later, so it was not even close to 2000 overall.*

Perhaps I was wrong in the numerical sense, no denying that, however, 5000 out of 300,000 sounds quite reasonable(if it can be).
Battle of Stalingrad was fought from Summer of 1942 till Feb. 2, 1943 exactly, so I wouldn't call that early in the war, perhaps on the bulge. As far as the numbers go, 91,000 troops turned themselves over to the Soviets. The Soviets recovered 250,000 German and Romanian corpses in and around Stalingrad and total Axis losses (Germans, Romanians, Italians, and Hungarians) are estimated to have been 800,000 dead. Official Russian military historians esitmate that 1,100,000 Soviet soldiers lost their lives in the campaign to defend the city.
What do you mean by "things changed later"?
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*According to many accounts the alternatives would mean many more Japanese killed. Estimate for the blocade were close to 30 million Japanese civilians dead from starvation, so 100000 or so from a-bomb can be considered a humane thing for both sides.*

Interesting utilitarian take, but "yesli-by da kaby":)) Are you calling Truman a humanist? I think he couldn't careless how many Japanese soldiers and civilians would perish in the siege. It was a political bomb, that's what I think of it. How about bombing of Tokyo and the subsequent fires that killed thousands? Couldn't the Americans drop their atomic bombs on a deserted island or naval base or imperial escadra; the effect would be just as devastating. A show-and-tell like this would perhaps install the same fear in Japanese high command.
Remember the Damansky island that was whiped off the map by the Russians when Chinese occupied it. Nobody bombed Shanghai. Chinese promptly removed their forces around Amur river and Russian border after that.
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****War is hell.

I don't like that phrase - it is used too often as an excuse. This is like saying "crime is bad". There are cases and there are cases. Killing the bomber's crew while shooting it down is one thing, shooting 10,000 Polish officers in Katin woods is another. Letting 1 million civilians die in a besieged city is different from shooting Soviet tanks at Prokhorovka.*

I didn't use that sentence as an excuse for the said war, but simply expressed my opinion. Viktor, could you please elaborate on your comparison of bombers, Katyn' and Prokhorovka?

Regards

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