RE: I said in "real time." Quite different from your reading. We'll just disagree about

>> what constitutes "real," regarding the larger issue.>>

When did this become the issue? The answer is simple though and self evident. "Real" would be believable. If that is the criteria... Not many movies aim for actual realism. When the style of the movie demands it then realism is important. If that is how you gauge fight scenes you should have been disgusted with Haywire. It was pretty far from realistic.

>>Bourne? Realistic to you? All the rapid cutting, speeding up and slowing down?>>

Why do you keep on bringing up the Bourne movies?

>> James Bond? No. Same problem.>>

I'm no fan of James Bond movies but the first fight scene in Casino Royale was both more realistic and far superior to any of the fight scenes in Haywire.

>>Again, Gina's fights weren't artificially speeded up and down w/a 1000 cuts.>>

Perhaps they should have been. Maybe they would not have looked as blatently choreographed and under rehersed. I mean the way they shot and edited it you could see each person waiting to take their turn and waiting for the other person to be ready to respond. It was really bad.

>>This was old-timey, low-tech. Editing was great, it looked brutal.>>

IMO The editing sucked along with the cinematography and the fights looked choreographed.

>> Fights went on w/out the MTV-millisecond edit. It felt brutal.>>

Maybe to you. Not to me.

>> What other star has chops like her (female)? None. >>

I don't make special catagories for female fighters. But there have been others with all her skills and more.

>> I can't think of a major Hollywood male, either, so feel free to mention one who's gotten into a professional fight.>>

Seriously? ever heard of this guy named Chuck Norris? By the way, since when is Gina Carano a "major Hollywood star?" There have been a lot of martial artists with far more creditials in the fight game and in the film game than Gina Carano.

>> You miss the point by mentioning doubles/stunts.>>

I didn't miss any point. I have an opinion on the quality of the fight scenes.

>> She didn't need one--- no turning aside, no shots from the rear of the action. She was the "actor." >>

You might want to check the credits of the movie...

>> As far as her acting chops, one doesn't see these films for that.... Let's face it, Jason ain't Olivier, either.
And then there's Soderbergh, a far better director than usually takes these films:
(from an interview w/him)
"With a real fighter, you do get to execute some pretty serious fight scenes.
Very early on, we decided we wanted to keep them as realistic as possible. No wirework. Nothing that you couldn't actually do. And as a result, the fights aren't very long, because what we learned is that if you're gonna keep it real, and these people are only doing what they can do, it doesn't drag out for very long.>>

So Soderberg made a stylistic choice and then dropped the ball with it. There was nearly nothing organic about those fights. they clearly were using well staged moves from Muy Thai and Ju Jitsu, the two styles of martial arts Gina Carano is well schooled in. When those moves are done in real life they look and feel totally different. And naturally, everyone took far more of a beating than they ever could in real life. Add to that the obviousness of each person taking their turn and waiting for the other to be ready and then shoot it from a distance with little editing so we can plainly see all the problems and you have lost any sense of realism. Soderberg's lack of experience in shooting fight scenes showed itself very clearly. they aren't real, they are choreographed and the film makers have to hide that fact with shot selection and editing.

>> Steven Soderbergh built a movie around pro fighter Gina Carano.>>

Everybody makes mistakes...

>> I sense we'll not agree since we obviously disagree about what constitutes quality editing, fight choreography. I'd just note that the New Yorker's reviewer agrees with me... he may know something about editing and such, but what the hell...>>

Or he may not. The two of you are entitled to your opinon as am I.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - "Haywire:" a thinking man's action film starring a believably tough woman, Gina Carano. - tinear 15:39:38 01/27/12 (27)

Didn't work for me - Analog Scott 20:01:41 01/29/12 (15)

What the heck???? Attack the acting, the plot, whatever, but the action, specifically the - tinear 20:14:35 01/29/12 (14)

The fight scenes sucked - Analog Scott 09:34:58 01/30/12 (13)

I said in "real time." Quite different from your reading. We'll just disagree about - tinear 17:10:25 01/31/12 (5)

RE: I said in "real time." Quite different from your reading. We'll just disagree about - Analog Scott 00:16:54 02/01/12 (4)

Chuck Norris? Oh, c'mon. If anything, Chuck lowered the bar for fight scenes. You think Craig, btw, is more - tinear 13:18:10 02/01/12 (3)

you asked a specific question and I gave you an answer. - Analog Scott 14:10:30 02/01/12 (2)

Just stop. You've been Tinned...it's like being Rick Rolled only Tin goes on longer. - Enophile 16:51:36 02/01/12 (1)

LOL - Analog Scott 18:23:30 02/01/12 (0)

Speaking as a fight scene aficionado... - Enophile 18:42:39 01/30/12 (4)

"favorite fight scene performers" - oldmkvi 11:00:21 01/31/12 (0)

RE: Speaking as a fight scene aficionado... - Analog Scott 19:04:40 01/30/12 (2)

Yeah, Steve Soderbergh is such a crummy cinematographer and editor, AS. Righto! nt - tinear 13:08:45 02/01/12 (1)

In this case yes - Analog Scott 13:32:44 02/01/12 (0)

What they had... - mkuller 11:07:32 01/30/12 (1)

in reality - Analog Scott 11:19:30 01/30/12 (0)

I agree and definitely enjoyed it. (NT) - jeffreybehr 16:20:42 01/27/12 (0)

Not too shabby but was "substance lite" . . . - mr grits 16:08:43 01/27/12 (9)

Daughter of an ex Dallas Cowboy QB, so she's gotta be good! ^ - Road Warrior 20:18:39 01/27/12 (8)

OK, I'm old. Her dad was a few years ahead of me at our high school. - Enophile 11:31:47 01/28/12 (4)

Wow...talk about coincidences... - mkuller 21:55:21 01/28/12 (2)

We moved over the summer and came across a six pack of '92 Siena... - Enophile 10:43:11 01/30/12 (1)

We go to their twice a year... - mkuller 11:15:08 01/30/12 (0)

F-C chardonnay is good stuff. nt - tinear 16:52:59 01/28/12 (0)

She has some looks, some moves, and a no teaties clause in her contract. * - mr grits 21:45:43 01/27/12 (2)

So she's not enough of... - mkuller 10:04:34 01/28/12 (1)

"Thesbian" (sic): very clever. nt - tinear 11:37:11 01/29/12 (0)

Follow Ups

RE: I said in "real time." Quite different from your reading. We'll just disagree about - Analog Scott 00:16:54 02/01/12 (4)

Chuck Norris? Oh, c'mon. If anything, Chuck lowered the bar for fight scenes. You think Craig, btw, is more - tinear 13:18:10 02/01/12 (3)

you asked a specific question and I gave you an answer. - Analog Scott 14:10:30 02/01/12 (2)

Just stop. You've been Tinned...it's like being Rick Rolled only Tin goes on longer. - Enophile 16:51:36 02/01/12 (1)

LOL - Analog Scott 18:23:30 02/01/12 (0)

RE: I said in "real time." Quite different from your reading. We'll just disagree about

Post a Message!