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Re: You can't even keep straight argument.

Posted by jamesgarvin (A) on January 16, 2007 at 16:46:22

In Reply to: You can't even keep straight argument. posted by Victor Khomenko on January 16, 2007 at 14:42:27:

"You started by saying you don't want your kids watch the adulturous French films (a stupid statement, 100%... perhaps you should start watching some French films - if adultery is the only thing you notice there then perhaps you are hopeless, though), presumably the adult films."

Where did I write that adultery is the only thing French films are about? You wrote: "...than expose them to the real life often portrayed in the European movies, that is your right, no problem, your choice." You did not qualify your statement to European films geared towards children. But then, you did write "I do not have hard info on the number of kids movies produced in Europe, but by my previous experience there is certainly no shortage, except they don't seem to be imported here." So, your statement is clearly that European films are better for children because they depict "real" life.

Now, if France, as an example, manages to release many children's films that are good fare, fine. But they do not get released here. So here is the original point - if you do not receive these great children's films from Europe because they are not distributed here, what films did you enjoy with your children if not from Hollywood? Or with grandchildren? I can see it how - "Grandpa, let's watch Finding Nemo." "Nyet, Nyet, Kaka, Kaka I tell you. Moron, Moron, you."

"Then you start talking about Toy Story in the same sentence, it seems. How's that switch? Why not stay with one format?"

Unfortunately, you cannot organize multiple posts together into a cohesive dialog. I'll try to recap for you. Take as much time as you need. You introduced "children" into the argument when, in reply to Scott, you wrote: "It seems in Europe the studios are more inclined to accept lower profits for the sake of producing stuff they would be proud to show their children."

Now, let's keep score. YOU brought up children first, not me. YOU introduced the notion of being proud to show their films to children. You did not write "adult" children. You did not write "teenagers." YOU used "children" in a response in which you compared European culture, specifically France (your example, not mine) to America.

In reply, I wrote that most European films, specifically French, I have seen I would not want my children to watch. I enjoy them very much, thank you, but not for my kids. Give than you were on a Hollywood bashing tangent yet again (myna bird anyone), I posited that one area that Hollywood has surpassed their European brethren is with respect to children's films, because, well, you wrote about films for children. Why would any director be proud to show a film about adult relationships, job loss, death in the family, etc., and those otherwise fun real life stuff, to children.

I used Toy Story and Bug's Life as but two examples of films appropriate for children. This buttressed an earlier point that sometimes one wants to watch a film for reasons other than cultural enlightenment, one being to enjoy a film with a child, which is precious difficult to do unless it is from Hollywood.

I used two examples, Toy Story and Bug's Life in my post. You reply "If you would rather have your kids watch the movies made for morons..." Again, you, not me, introduce the concept of these films being for morons, and "the" movies, the only two mentioned were TS and BL.

So, let's tally the score. YOU introduce children into the argument. YOU introduce children into the argument in the same post in which you discuss European films and culture versus Hollywood. YOU call those films, and by implication that genre, as being made for morons. With me so far?

I then respond to the statement YOU (not me) introduced into this dialog vis a vis moron that Clark liked Finding Nemo (from that genre of film YOU claim is made for morons), querying whether you thought Clark was a moron (after all, he enjoyed a film made for morons), correctly predicting you would not respond. Well, you did write " My comment about morons and lives of morons had to do with American adult movies, not childrens' ones, that was clear."

Really, oh backpeddaling one.

I write: "How many European films are made for children the way Hollywood has produced Toy Story, Bug's Life, etc? The joy and pleasure I felt from watching The Polar Express with my three year old cannot be overstated. I even let him sit in the sweet spot. I have Hollywood to thank for that, not European cinema."

You respond: "If you would rather have your kids watch the movies made for morons, than expose them to the real life often portrayed in the European movies, that is your right, no problem, your choice."

Now, let's see. You were referring to "adult" films, not "children's" films, and that was clear, when you introduced children into the dialog, and then, in response, I write about kids specifically watching "Bugs Life", "Toy Story", avoiding adult films as examples, and previously pointing out that if you would like to watch films with your children, you are pretty much limited to Hollywood films, and you write, um, what, "if you would have your KIDS watch THE movies made for morons." Why would you be referring to films in a response in which I did not write about adult American films. But, you were not referring to Toy Story, et al., but unnamed adult films? And that was clear? A-ha. Right. Good one.

Given that "hard facts" are not your specialty, you write..."do not have hard info on the number of kids movies produced in Europe, but by my previous experience there is certainly no shortage, except they don't seem to be imported here. I think I can understand why."

I'll spell it for you. If a small children's film from Iran is imported here (a very good one, incidentally), then why not those from Europe? You infer that it is because Americans cannot appreciate your finer children's films which you cannot name, and apparently cannnot be distributed here, because Americans could not appreciate such fare, all the while a tiny little Iranian film manages to sneak across our fair shores. What does this little Iranian director know that these cultures Europeans do not?

But, the master of generalities is not done. You write "Some of the American childrens's movies are fun and fine, but pardon me for telling you that - some are dull, idiotic, syrupy and just plain stupid." Sure. I agree. But which ones? You mean Nemo, the film you have never seen?

You write: "The fact the Nemo is watched all over the world doesn't impress me - I have not seen it, and world wide popularity doesn't really bother me - Big Macs sell everywhere."

Here we go. Vic #1: "Some countries have long established cultural traditions - just look at France for one such example. They therefore have fertile soil that makes good works of art more likely."

Vic #2: "I suppose every film making organization struggles with profit versus art issue, but given the higher role the culture plays in the countries like France or Italy, their decisions tend to lean one direction..."

Lemme' see if I get this straight: The denizens of that cultured society, one that produces such art in so many forms, is too cultured to make these films (Toy Story and Bug's Life), but not too cultured to enjoy them? So, is that, or any other, cultured society defined by the creators of the "art", or the consumers of the "art," because according to the you, and the numbers I posted, those cultured societies are as willing to lap up shit as much as the good ole' U.S of A. The numbers demonstrate that Europe has caught up (or down) with us in culture. Seems when you left, Vic, it all went to hell in a handbasket.

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